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all flounder closed?

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    Posted: 10 November 2019 at 12:58pm
Have they closed commercial flounder season yet?


Or is there some "book cooking" going on to keep it open?


"Do the right thing. It will gratify some people and astonish the rest." --- Mark Twain
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 November 2019 at 4:50pm
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NC Fisheries Management- Motto: Too Little, Too Late, Too Bad   Slogan: Shrimp On! Mission Statement: Enable Commercial Fishing At Any and All Cost, Regardless of Impact to the Resource.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 November 2019 at 11:12am


...so, DMF targeted a reduction of 62% for 2019 based on the 2017 terminal year, which had 1,394,907 in landings.


In this month's MFC briefing book, the Director brings the Commission up to date on YTD Southern flounder and red drum landings, which can be found on page 219-  



As you can see- Aug, Sept and Oct data is preliminary and incomplete at a total YTD of 311,642 pounds landed.

Targeted commercial landings for 2019 with a 62% reduction is 530,065, leaving a 218,423 balance to firm up final Aug, Sept, Oct and Nov landings.

Anyone want to bet that the commercials blew through the quota?

...with no payback provision for 2020!

...all while recreational angler couldn't keep a fish. 


Edited by Rick - 11 November 2019 at 11:24am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chriselk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 November 2019 at 12:52pm
Rick, help me out.

I am trying to understand if the 62% reduction is compared to 2017, why is it compared to 2007-2009 in that table?

Is the 530,065 for 2019 quota based on year 2017 (as you said above) or average of 2007-2009?

Wouldn't the 2007-2009 years be irrelevant then?

What am I missing (besides my coffee, yet)?

Sorry to be so dense.

---------

We will have to see what happens on the commercial quota, but I have been told that the recreational sector busted their (tiny) quota as well.  

---
In defense of the previous MFC this was a quasi-emergency rule to get something in place for this fall.  I know some are not a fan of Rob Bizzell, the Chair of the MFC, but if it were not for him, that reduction would never have been put in place.  Imagine the landings then.  An across the board cut was all that could be implemented in that time frame for this Amendment 2.

On the other hand, we have scoping meetings for Amendment 3 where public comments are welcomed.  We all know what needs to be done, so make sure you let the MFC/DMF know where you stand on gear, allocations and species of flounder.  

We made a difference before on S flounder, twice, with two different MFCs, both from mixed party Governors.  This MFC consists of members appointed solely by the current Governor.  I cannot predict the response of the current MFC if there is huge support for conservation, but I can predict the response if we are "No Shows".


The above comments are my personal opinion and do not represent those of any organizations or agencies I may be a member of.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 November 2019 at 1:44pm

Chris-

DMF has been providing the Southern Flounder and Red Drum landings update for years to the Commission.  They haven't changed the 2007-2009 base.  I agree that base is irrelevant today.



Most of your questions can be answered on a link here-


The draft FMP A2 is here-  


In the draft you can find this reference on page 7

All projections estimate necessary changes to fishing mortality when compared to the terminal year (2017) fishing mortality identified in the stock assessment. In addition, the projections assumed management would start in 2019 and the 10-year rebuilding deadline would be 2028. The projection scenarios are constrained to the current management regulations, including size limits, creel limits, and gear requirements.


You'll find this on page 12- (I understand this is total removals, catch- landings plus discards.)

A reduction of 62% in total removals will end overfishing and achieve sustainable harvest by rebuilding SSB between the threshold and target within the required 10-year time period. The 62% reduction in total removals allows for 531,629 pounds of allowable commercial removals of which 8,416 pounds will be available for non-targeted “other” gears (Table 4). This reduction gives the northern area allowable removals of 123,255 pounds, the central area allowable removals of 262,710 pounds, and the southern area allowable removals of 137,248 pounds (Table 4). With a Sept. 15 start date the northern area will meet their removal level on average by Oct. 13, the central area by Oct. 17, and the southern area by Nov. 2 (Table 5; Figure 21). 

Now, where my question comes in is how changing the southern area closure from the Nov 2 to Nov 15 affected the calculations to reach a 62% reduction.

There can be a lot of fish landed in the Core Sound and south areas in those two weeks.

My "quota" number is calculated from the 2017 trip ticket landings...landings only...no discard mortality.

As you know, the Commission had little to do with Amendment 2.  It would have taken a supermajority vote to have overridden the Division's recommendations. 


Edited by Rick - 11 November 2019 at 3:14pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 November 2019 at 2:23pm

Notice how "incomplete" October could be...only 102 trips reporting 21,518 pounds...211 pounds per trip.

2016 had 2181 trips reporting 280,689...129 pounds per trip...Hurricane Mathew year
2017 had 3971 trips reporting 548,740...138 pounds per trip....no hurricanes that year
2018 had 3062 trips reporting 363,339...119 pounds per trip....Hurricane Florence that year.

With the 2016 and 2018 escapement, more fish and bigger fish in 2019, pounds per trip is 164% of the prior three year average from the small sample size above. If that holds, we could see the commercial quota exceeded by a significant margin.

I trust that's not going to happen...right?

Let's face it, the fisheries management wizkids over at DMF can see the same numbers that I saw in just a few minutes of reading the briefing book.

If the quota was in jeopardy of being substantially exceeded, the Director would use proclamation authority to close the fishery...right? 

No?  

If that's the case, it shows why Amendment 3 must have electronic reporting with annual payback for any overage...just like we are already doing on red drum.




Edited by Rick - 11 November 2019 at 3:22pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chriselk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 November 2019 at 10:50am
For overfished stocks, payback for exceeding the annual quota is standard practice at the Council level.  

Thanks for "Spoonfeedng" me.  Been on the road for a week with a new bed every night.  My wife frowns on me doing internet and driving.
The above comments are my personal opinion and do not represent those of any organizations or agencies I may be a member of.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 November 2019 at 6:25pm

Proclamation closing Units south of A to large mesh gillnets...drum are happy.


PROCLAMATION
 
RE: GILL NET RESTRICTIONS: INTERNAL COASTAL WATERS – CLOSES ALL MANAGEMENT UNITS SOUTH OF MANAGEMENT UNIT A TO THE USE OF GILL NETS WITH STRETCHED MESH LENGTH OF 4 INCHES THROUGH 6 ½ INCHES 
 This proclamation supersedes proclamation M-21-2019 dated October 23, 2019. This proclamation closes all Management Units South of Management Unit A to the use of gill nets with a stretched mesh length of 4 inches through 6 ½ inches (except as described in Section III.) in accordance with Amendment 2 to the N.C. Southern Flounder Fishery Management Plan.    Stephen W. Murphey, Director, Division of Marine Fisheries, hereby announces that effective at 7:41 A.M., Friday, November 15, 2019, the following provisions shall apply to the use of gill nets south of Management Unit A (south of 35° 46.3000’ N latitude):
 
L. This proclamation supersedes proclamation M-21-2019 dated October 23, 2019. This proclamation closes all Management Units South of Management Unit A to the use of gill nets with a stretched mesh length of 4 inches through 6 ½ inches (except as described in Section III.). This action is being taken in accordance with Amendment 2 to the N.C. Southern Flounder Fishery Management Plan.   

III. GEAR EXEMPTIONS AND RESTRICTIONS FOR RUN-AROUND, STRIKE, DROP, TRAMMEL, AND DRIFT GILL NETS 
A. Exempted gear definitions (including trammel gill nets): 
1. Run-around, strike, drop, or trammel gill nets - gill nets that are set and then are immediately retrieved. 
2. Drift gill nets - gill nets that are used to capture fish while being moved along by water currents and the net being actively fished and attended from deployment through retrieval. 

B. It is unlawful to use run-around, strike, drift, drop and trammel gill nets with a stretched mesh length 5 inches and greater. 

C. It is unlawful to use or possess more than 800 yards of run-around, strike, drop and trammel gill net per commercial fishing operation.
 
D. It is unlawful to use or possess more than 2,000 yards of drift gill net per commercial fishing operation.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote marker39 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 November 2019 at 7:23pm
I wonder what the "real" cost of trying to manage gill nets, inshore trawls, oyster dredges etc...   really is.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lcg8978 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 November 2019 at 9:45am
Rick, I'm not sure that proclamation is going to help the drum very much. Particularly in management unit E, most of the drum fall victim to run-around or strike netting. Not seeing any large mesh now with flounder still open.
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