FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

So... Where are all the law suits

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
francoind View Drop Down
Pro
Pro


Joined: 21 July 2003
Status: Offline
Points: 284
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote francoind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: So... Where are all the law suits
    Posted: 31 August 2019 at 7:43pm
For years I have heard about all the threatened lawsuits that would fix the fisheries problems. Nothing has changed and still I hear rumors of lawsuits. The commercial group have stolen the fishery resources in North Carolina and are now laughing about it. It no longer is a public resource, but a private one.  One trawler in one day will kill more baby flounder than all recreational fishermen will catch in a year. BUT we are stopping the recreational fishermen and turning the commercial folks loose, trawls and gill nets. CROOKED POLITICS.I have purchased 9 lifetime licenses and now I have to go to South Carolina to catch a flounder.
I DO NOT KNOW HOW SOME OF YOU CAN SLEEP AT NIGHT or GO OUT IN PUBLIC WITH A STRAIGHT FACE. See you on the water in South Carolina.
fiogf49gjkf0d
A FISHIN ROD and a BROKEN HEART
Back to Top
Get Bowed Up View Drop Down
Pro
Pro


Joined: 08 August 2018
Status: Offline
Points: 122
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Get Bowed Up Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2019 at 10:03pm
Hopefully you still stop in at your local tackle shop before heading down.
Back to Top
TomM View Drop Down
Pro
Pro


Joined: 11 July 2006
Location: Roanoke Rapids
Status: Offline
Points: 2506
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TomM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2019 at 10:32pm
Not Chasing
Back to Top
bakesta View Drop Down
Pro
Pro
Avatar

Joined: 24 January 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2652
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bakesta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 September 2019 at 8:55am
Originally posted by Get Bowed Up Get Bowed Up wrote:

Hopefully you still stop in at your local tackle shop before heading down.


Now that is a funny and naive comment.

I'd say the exact opposite.  At this point, I'll drive to the MHC Walmart before I go in to Chasin Tails to buy Gulp.

I think it's time for our local tackle shops to pick a side.  If they want things to get better, they need to put up a big sign that says "Ban gillnets and shrimp trawling" on the front of the building. 

Some local tackle shops have joined the fight but many have been a frustrating problem.  They make their money off of recreational fishing but won't speak out against the things that are hurting  their business the most  - gillnets and trawls.  In essence, they are "crapping in their own mess kits" and I have never understood why.


I wonder how many flounder rigs will be sold in our local tackle shops during the next year?  EVERY PENNY of those lost sales are caused by COMMERCIAL FISHING. 

 It's time for local tackle shops to sponsor NCWF and CCA membership drives and loudly correct anyone who speaks ill of those groups.  

It's time to make the North Carolina coast a place that is unfriendly towards commercial fishing and its sympathizers.   

It's time for every local tackle shop to join this fight.





  


"Do the right thing. It will gratify some people and astonish the rest." --- Mark Twain
Back to Top
Get Bowed Up View Drop Down
Pro
Pro


Joined: 08 August 2018
Status: Offline
Points: 122
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Get Bowed Up Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 September 2019 at 3:00pm
Well, I'm sure that big box shop you mentioned will have a nice self check out for you. As for the other place you mentioned or any other, no better way to draw a line than to shame and shake your finger at them and any of their loyal customers who may share like feelings. Those organizations listed have the ability to educate and reshape opinion if ones opinion is not positive.
Back to Top
cnaff View Drop Down
Pro
Pro


Joined: 22 October 2006
Location: North Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 1071
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cnaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 September 2019 at 5:04pm
This is an utterly cogent point, bakesta. The tackle shops aren't interested in doing conservation, because they wish that somehow, the whole issue of fish conservation will just go away, and that no one will notice the increasing lack of abundance that actually prevails. If you or me neglect our business fundamentals and go out of business, that is known in some quarters as incompetence. If you silently allow the diminution and damage to the interests of your customer base, then that is just extending one's incompetence in concentric circles around you, and the death of your business becomes inexorable, because you are circling the drain on your hands and knees at the behest of the politicians and commercial industry that will be glad to see you exit the marketplace when you can''t get anglers in the store because you played the game for the benefit of the side that wants you gone. Even Walmart tackle is better than paying the incompetent to support N.C.Fisheries malfeasance and graft as it exists today.
V/H Dog
Back to Top
Glacierbaze View Drop Down
Pro
Pro


Joined: 09 January 2005
Location: North Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 3882
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Glacierbaze Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 September 2019 at 11:35pm
The question I had this week-end, while perusing a display of rigs labeled specifically for flounder was, will they tell unsuspecting, and under-informed customers, who walk up to the register with a hand full of flounder rigs, and/or bait, that the season is closed, or will they keep silent, and ring up the sale?
"You can never elevate your own character by stepping on someone else's."

"Never argue with a man who loves the sound of his own voice."
Back to Top
bakesta View Drop Down
Pro
Pro
Avatar

Joined: 24 January 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2652
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bakesta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 September 2019 at 9:15am
Hopefully the tackle shops will put up a big sign that says "Flounder season is closed due to commercial gillnets and shrimp trawlers."

But I won't be holding my breathWinkLOL

It will be interesting to see if they keep their gigs on display.

And yes CNAFF  - good point - the tackle shop owners are supporting an industry that would prefer they all go away.  



"Do the right thing. It will gratify some people and astonish the rest." --- Mark Twain
Back to Top
Rick View Drop Down
Pro
Pro


Joined: 16 July 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 6191
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 September 2019 at 12:24pm

The local tackle shops like Chasin run guiding businesses...the data below is interesting showing the number of for-hires that have an SCFL or RSCFL.




fiogf49gjkf0d
NC Fisheries Management- Motto: Too Little, Too Late, Too Bad   Slogan: Shrimp On! Mission Statement: Enable Commercial Fishing At Any and All Cost, Regardless of Impact to the Resource.
Back to Top
Ray Brown View Drop Down
Pro
Pro
Avatar
NCW FOUNDER

Joined: 14 July 2003
Location: North Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 14861
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 September 2019 at 12:52pm
Anyone who harvests fish to sell in NC or anyone who sells goods and services to those that fish all filter fishery laws the same way when they think of them. All are affected financially by fishery laws thus NONE of them......commercial fishermen, guides, charter boat captains, boat builders, boat dealers, tackle manufacturers, or tackle shoop owners should be allowed to sit on the MFC and make the rules that govern fishing. That in large part is why we are where we are in NC.

That being said.....the "advisory committees" should have all these groups represented to make their case, but none of these professions should be the last voice in whether fishing is allowed or not.

Once a fishery is opened with a certain amount then "how" is certainly something those involved in the "how" should have input in.

As much as Louis Daniel and I used to disagree on many things, this is one thing that in time we both saw as a problem.

Anytime you have money involved, you have a loss of objectivity in the process unless of course, the objective remains monetary.

All those dual licenses above were attained to maximize profits. Not criticizing the business decision to do so, but considering these are public trust resources then they should be treated like tax dollars and folks who have the tax dollars spent with them should not be creating the terms.

Imagine if road builders ran the DOT by a plurality, or foresters ran the logging on public lands by a plurality, etc...etc.   Interestingly enough, only when it comes to fishing does the law require that a majority of the ruling body have a financial interest in harvest, the study of, or selling goods and services to those that do.

Count them within the 9 MFC members.....

Three commercial members, one recreational industry member, and one scientist whose career was often based on studies of the resource. That is five members....a majority.

Then when you wind up with another scientist with ties and a dependency to state marine research dollars you have our current MFC which is now 6 members with an interest in revenue generated.

And finally.....unless he has given them it up....our current Chairman who is listed as a recreational angler holds a SCFL, "just in case" he were to land a BFT one fall or winter.   (In fairness he has said he would gladly give up that SCFL if the law in NC ever said a SCFL holder could not be classified a "rec" on the MFC or related boards, but as of now the law lets a licensed commercial fisherman hold a recreational seat as long as that person's disclosed income from fishing does not exceed a certain percentage of their total earned income.)

Maybe we need a hat campaign that says....."Make NC Fishing Great Again"

Forget how we do it, could we even get consensus on a color?   

Francoid….

You bought a lifetime license to hunt deer too. How many can you legally keep from January 3rd of each year until August 31st regardless of the method?

Seasons for a reason have long been part of fishing and hunting in America.

And even with deer there are times when certain gear can hunt and certain gear can't not unlike this situation, but both have a season.

Can we do it better next year, I certainly hope so, but this type of management is not new or different just new to flounder, but was the reason to curb harvest needed?

In my opinion and that of every scientist including the state of SC scientist....yes!

Edited by Ray Brown - 03 September 2019 at 1:12pm
I am a native of NC. The "bycatch captial of the east coast of the US". Our legislature lets us kill more fish for no reason than any other Atlantic Coast state. I hope they are proud.
Back to Top
ONEARMEDBANDIT View Drop Down
Pro
Pro
Avatar

Joined: 15 July 2003
Location: North Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 1503
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ONEARMEDBANDIT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 September 2019 at 9:32pm
If I were a Tackle Shop owner/Proprietor …
That sells (Local) FRESH Shrimp.. 
Frozen or fresh.. 
Or Mud Minnows, hermit crabs, or ANY kind of Live or frozen bait..
99.0% of (Local Shops)..
Their Livelihood.. 
Or bait Shop..
this Isn't happening.. 
We have to find a way around this.. 


Edited by ONEARMEDBANDIT - 03 September 2019 at 9:34pm
Back to Top
francoind View Drop Down
Pro
Pro


Joined: 21 July 2003
Status: Offline
Points: 284
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote francoind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 September 2019 at 3:02pm
Ray, do not compare Deer hunting to salt water fishing as there is no set aside of deer for some commercial group to sell. The fact is that the fish in the waters of North Carolina are suppose to belong to all citizens and fishing stared out as a way to catch your supper. Only when each citizen is allowed to catch all he wants to eat should we then allow the sale of the excess supply. The bribes have gotten the cart before the horse here in North Carolina. I have said many times if you want good fishing in North Carolina, then stop all fishing for three years. But when you stop recreational fishing and continue with gill nets and trawl, you are not fooling anyone but your self. I wish NC Wildlife was in charge of ALL fishing as they have been pretty successful in their efforts. Notice the absence of commercial efforts. MONEY CORRUPTS!!!!!!!!!
fiogf49gjkf0d
A FISHIN ROD and a BROKEN HEART
Back to Top
Ray Brown View Drop Down
Pro
Pro
Avatar
NCW FOUNDER

Joined: 14 July 2003
Location: North Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 14861
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 September 2019 at 2:43pm
Frank, you know as well as I do that when the first deer season was imposed, no matter how necessary, it was met with the same resentment this initial flounder season was met with. Hopefully in subsequent years the MFC will figure out a way to get the biological results we need, but in a manner that is preceded as fair. I admit this year it doesn't look fair, but if they are using the best available data, and following it, then it is as fair as possible when it comes to cutting based on historical landings.

Reallocation is a major issue for many now and that is another debate for another day, but I think it is coming.
I am a native of NC. The "bycatch captial of the east coast of the US". Our legislature lets us kill more fish for no reason than any other Atlantic Coast state. I hope they are proud.
Back to Top
bakesta View Drop Down
Pro
Pro
Avatar

Joined: 24 January 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2652
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bakesta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 September 2019 at 8:12am
The cuts are not fair.

If a major reallocation does not occur then nothing will ever get solved.

It's time to mostly eliminate the inshore commercial flounder fishery --- forever  -- and focus on building recreational fishing.

I know that won't happen if DMF is n charge as they are completely inept and commercial-based so the first part that needs to move in this long chain of events is to merge DMF into WRC.  After that, reallocation will be possible and smart management can start.


  







"Do the right thing. It will gratify some people and astonish the rest." --- Mark Twain
Back to Top
ONEARMEDBANDIT View Drop Down
Pro
Pro
Avatar

Joined: 15 July 2003
Location: North Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 1503
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ONEARMEDBANDIT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 September 2019 at 3:55pm
Originally posted by francoind francoind wrote:

I have said many times if you want good fishing in North Carolina, then stop all fishing for three years.
 

I was about laughed off this Forum when, I suggested What you said.. Oh back,, in 2003 or soo..  


Edited by ONEARMEDBANDIT - 07 September 2019 at 3:58pm
Back to Top
Rick View Drop Down
Pro
Pro


Joined: 16 July 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 6191
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 September 2019 at 4:29pm
Look what happened with flounder. There was some darn good flounder fishing this year.

Why-
2015 size limit went to 15” for commercials with increased minimum mesh in both gillnets and pound net escape panels. We were all fishing on a truncated less than two year old stock. Between a 15” size limit and Hurricane Mathew we saw low landings in 2016, less than 900,000 pounds. Fish escaped to grow and spawn.

2017 Landings where’s back up to almost 1.4-million.

2018 Hurricane Florence reduced effort with landings of right at 900,000.

2019 We are targeting a 62% reduction. I had my doubts that would be accomplished. Hurricane Dorian probably just secured those reductions.

Flounder should bounce back nice and quick.

Spot, croaker, gray trout are a different story. Stop trawling in the Pamlico Sound for three years and that story would be as good or better than flounder.

Speckle trout- thank god for a minor cold-stun event that shut the fishery down and two hurricanes. We must put a Jan-March seasonal closure in place with the next FMP. I’d love to see a slot with a one fish allowance above slot, but that is ridiculous as long as the nets are on them.

Edited by Rick - 07 September 2019 at 4:51pm
fiogf49gjkf0d
NC Fisheries Management- Motto: Too Little, Too Late, Too Bad   Slogan: Shrimp On! Mission Statement: Enable Commercial Fishing At Any and All Cost, Regardless of Impact to the Resource.
Back to Top
Bread Man 1 View Drop Down
Pro
Pro
Avatar

Joined: 12 May 2013
Location: Sneads Ferry
Status: Offline
Points: 1453
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bread Man 1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 September 2019 at 9:42pm
A recreational speckled trout closure? You have to be joking.
Back to Top
Get Bowed Up View Drop Down
Pro
Pro


Joined: 08 August 2018
Status: Offline
Points: 122
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Get Bowed Up Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 September 2019 at 10:26pm
Bread Man, there is no way you don't think limiting one prized inshore fishery to possibly 6 weeks isn't going to create "needs" for other inshore fisheries, do you? Hey, we always have pin fish, til we don't.

Edited by Get Bowed Up - 08 September 2019 at 8:14am
Back to Top
cnaff View Drop Down
Pro
Pro


Joined: 22 October 2006
Location: North Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 1071
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cnaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 September 2019 at 8:19am
Rick, as you point out, any recent gains in fish numbers which became available to anglers for catching are thoroughly the results of ACCIDENTS and ACTS OF GOD. These conditions will not prevail in the actuality that our fisheries will be prosecuted to the standards of status quo, which may even include obviating the current flounder measures we are amazed to see instituted, and will be also attacked by adherents of the extant coastal zeitgeist which grips the voters who seem not to value the biomass over momentary social considerations. Anomalies don't restore fisheries in any reliable degree, but good management by a supporting system could do the trick. That supporting system is barely in evidence, and clings to life only in opposition to the "deep fishery state", if you will entertain the concept that there is such a thing(I think there is). It is always at work, propelling North Carolina toward that future where every and all fish are purchased from a fish house.
V/H Dog
Back to Top
cnaff View Drop Down
Pro
Pro


Joined: 22 October 2006
Location: North Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 1071
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cnaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 September 2019 at 8:37am
Bowed, I've read and reread your reply to Bread Man and understand that there's something that you feel Bread could not possibly believe. Are you saying that no matter what seasonal closures we employ that might help a fishery, other species will be more heavily exploited as compensation because the structure of our management system can't possibly support conservation given the people we have so brilliantly allowed to run the thing and who continue, by hook and crook, to do so? This is an argument which supports the need to fully clean house, and give bakesta's WRC a chance, because an empowered agency with LEOs and managers who believe in CONSERVATION and honest enforcement will make conservation possible. All the clear as mud equivocating of wonks has, until now, amounted to support for status quo, but I am attempting to understand your point.
V/H Dog
Back to Top
ONEARMEDBANDIT View Drop Down
Pro
Pro
Avatar

Joined: 15 July 2003
Location: North Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 1503
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ONEARMEDBANDIT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 September 2019 at 10:23am
Originally posted by Rick Rick wrote:

Look what happened with flounder. There was some darn good flounder fishing this year.

Why-
2015 size limit went to 15” for commercials with increased minimum mesh in both gillnets and pound net escape panels. We were all fishing on a truncated less than two year old stock. Between a 15” size limit and Hurricane Mathew we saw low landings in 2016, less than 900,000 pounds. Fish escaped to grow and spawn.

2017 Landings where’s back up to almost 1.4-million.

2018 Hurricane Florence reduced effort with landings of right at 900,000.

2019 We are targeting a 62% reduction. I had my doubts that would be accomplished. Hurricane Dorian probably just secured those reductions.

Flounder should bounce back nice and quick.

Spot, croaker, gray trout are a different story. Stop trawling in the Pamlico Sound for three years and that story would be as good or better than flounder.

Speckle trout- thank god for a minor cold-stun event that shut the fishery down and two hurricanes. We must put a Jan-March seasonal closure in place with the next FMP. I’d love to see a slot with a one fish allowance above slot, but that is ridiculous as long as the nets are on them.
 

Admittedly, I don't "target" Flounder, Though I've "seen" some good numbers caught by friends off the piers (what few We have left)  & off the beach & Surf... 
One thing I HAVE Noticed this year..
The YUGE Amounts of "baby" flounders, up in the CFR, While cast-netting for Shrimp & bait.. More than I have ever seen in several years.. They were about the size of a Quarter.. 

  As for the SST's, after Florence last year/Fall Fishing off the beach for Sea Mullet.. You had to practically, beat the SST's OFF your bait, it was akin to trying to catch a couple Spots, in a school of Pinfish, ALL just undersized, 10 & 12" fish, I gave up on the Mullet, because the SST's were so thick, (yes they WILL eat sand fleas to, I found out)…

Caught a Couple NICE "gators" up in CFR this past summer, On Mud Minners, If you could keep your bait away from the crabs.. Kept one & released the rest..

   As far as the Spots/Croakers/Grey Trout..
NO Spots were "caught" last fall, or Really the Fall before that one 17~18~ Now none,  possibly this year either..   Due to Hurricanes.. I did "notice" before Dorian came up the Coast, a couple OBX piers caught "some" Spots..

 NOW the point of this post is,, With almost EVERY pier either destroyed/Damaged, the Commercial Sector in NO WAY, Shape or Form, Can Blame the "REC" on declining Spots numbers et al.. there are Honestly, hardly ANY piers to fish from! Translating into REDUCED to Non-existent "REC" Fishing Pressure...

Again, years ago, I was about Laughed  off, Run off this Board, because of My suggestion on a 3 year Ban on fishing..
MORE to the point, just STOP TRAWLING inside the Sounds.. 
Doesn't seem such a bad suggestion NOW doesn't it?
2~3 years WE, The Citizens of N.C., would have a World Class Fishery again, that WE could be dern sure proud of.. 
Also,, I would "LIKE" to see a limit per person on Spots, say 15~25 per person..  Anyone that "needs" more than that are just wasting them, getting freezer burnt, or just going to waste..

(SideBar) @Rick, could you post another Trawling snapshot in the next few Days on Trawling Effort? It would be interesting to see what those folks are up too.. "Post Dorian"  
Back to Top
Get Bowed Up View Drop Down
Pro
Pro


Joined: 08 August 2018
Status: Offline
Points: 122
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Get Bowed Up Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 September 2019 at 1:48pm
Cnaff, my post simply stating a matter of fact, close a high target fishery and it will shift effort during the closure, make short seasons it will concentrate effort during that time period. That situation is likely to create a need or a call for needed action on the fisheries effort has shifted too.

Dose that mean we do nothing when actions are needed, absolutely not.

Edited by Get Bowed Up - 08 September 2019 at 1:48pm
Back to Top
lcg8978 View Drop Down
Pro
Pro


Joined: 02 December 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 183
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lcg8978 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 September 2019 at 7:41am
Originally posted by ONEARMEDBANDIT ONEARMEDBANDIT wrote:

 
Again, years ago, I was about Laughed  off, Run off this Board, because of My suggestion on a 3 year Ban on fishing..
MORE to the point, just STOP TRAWLING inside the Sounds.. 
Doesn't seem such a bad suggestion NOW doesn't it?
2~3 years WE, The Citizens of N.C., would have a World Class Fishery again, that WE could be dern sure proud of.. 
Also,, I would "LIKE" to see a limit per person on Spots, say 15~25 per person..  Anyone that "needs" more than that are just wasting them, getting freezer burnt, or just going to waste..

It seems most people don't really care about the FISH, they care about their ability to catch them. I would gladly stop fishing completely (no C&R) if it was going to make a difference. In our current state, we're down to a "if I don't kill it, somebody else will" mentality.
Back to Top
Rick View Drop Down
Pro
Pro


Joined: 16 July 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 6191
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 September 2019 at 10:01am
Originally posted by ONEARMEDBANDIT ONEARMEDBANDIT wrote:

 

(SideBar) @Rick, could you post another Trawling snapshot in the next few Days on Trawling Effort? It would be interesting to see what those folks are up too.. "Post Dorian"  
 

...business as usual this morning.   Effort has been down all summer due to the lack of shrimp-



fiogf49gjkf0d
NC Fisheries Management- Motto: Too Little, Too Late, Too Bad   Slogan: Shrimp On! Mission Statement: Enable Commercial Fishing At Any and All Cost, Regardless of Impact to the Resource.
Back to Top
penfish2 View Drop Down
Pro
Pro


Joined: 25 August 2012
Location: Snow Camp NC
Status: Offline
Points: 216
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote penfish2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 September 2019 at 10:13am
Rick: I get your point with the graf, but it looks like you are hunting rhinos but aiming at the tick birds on their backs that eat insects stirred up by the rhinos' steps in the grass.... tackle shops at the coast I know about (and I don't know all) sell to small-timers, locals, many of them who often use gear not destructive of baby and juvenile fish (skimmer trawls, for instance?). I'm asking -- do you know of many owners of dual rec-comm equipment bidnesses who sell head ropes and otter trawl equipment and nets to 90-foot plowers of Pamlico Sound? Unless we admit rec fishing season is short and small shops sell stuff to one rec customer at a time for prolly 8 months a year and rarely sees an angler who needs inshore/nearshore tackle for four months (Dec.-March), we don't grasp the shop owners' problem with cash flow … are they playing both sides of the fence? Well, yah. But look at the numbers; it's a spit in the ocean. Besides that, I question if it's anyone's right to tell a legal bidness owner whom he can or can't sell stuff to … would you like your bidness to be subject to that kind of squeeze from people who didn't like offshore angling because it kills big fish (or some such stupid idea)? …. To me this resembles the anti-gun approach to crime: take up all the hunting weapons from owners of legal firearms and pretend it will reduce shootings of innocents. …  The big target (as multiple people have written about here) is the big inshore trawlers that kill so many fish, including flounders … you know that 79% of flounders are taken by nets, so rec anglers ain't the problem … we need to get the bull out of the china shop and then good things will start to happen …if I'm full o' horse feathers I'm sure you'll clue me in....that's the only way to learn, from someone who knows more about a topic than you..... have a good 'un.
Many go fishing all their lives without knowing it is not fish they are after.
* Henry David Thoreau
Back to Top
Rick View Drop Down
Pro
Pro


Joined: 16 July 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 6191
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 September 2019 at 8:56am
penfish2-   I not sure I understand your point and I'm sure that you missed mine.  ...too busy to explain today.

 
fiogf49gjkf0d
NC Fisheries Management- Motto: Too Little, Too Late, Too Bad   Slogan: Shrimp On! Mission Statement: Enable Commercial Fishing At Any and All Cost, Regardless of Impact to the Resource.
Back to Top
cnaff View Drop Down
Pro
Pro


Joined: 22 October 2006
Location: North Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 1071
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cnaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 September 2019 at 1:45pm
Cash flow is used as one of several excuses to deplete species which might otherwise be conserved or even enhanced for a greater profit if only sound criteria were applied to their management. No one disputes a tackle shop' sneed to make money, as non of us here dispute that a fish house needs to make money; it's just that bad management of and depletion of species should be a concern of these industries, and they aren't registering pupillary vitality when the light passes over their eyes. This means we have two industries who might prosper from rethinking their modus, but instead, we must suffer a depleted fishery because influential players are so damnably selfish they would walk our school of resource conservation right off the damn cliff and laugh about it. It's the lack of intellectual responsibility that takes out this potentially effective, vital system, and leaves us with a mess we are assailed for trying to fix, while anti-intellectual legislators and industry players feed us fecal material by the shovel. It would be fine if their callous policies only hurt themselves, but it hurts THE OTHER STAKEHOLDERS, who are denied any ability to change the situation. Ergo, Darwinian principal would rightly determine the loss of livelihood for the insouciant, but instead leaves us in the position of waiting for them to kill themselves off by negligent attrition at their own hands, and that's what you, penfish, are saying we must do? Tackle shops have to keep up with the program, too, or they are whistling past that ol' graveyard, just as many of us are wont to do.
V/H Dog
Back to Top
penfish2 View Drop Down
Pro
Pro


Joined: 25 August 2012
Location: Snow Camp NC
Status: Offline
Points: 216
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote penfish2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 September 2019 at 9:35am
What we have here is failure to communicate:  "Darwinian principal would rightly determine the loss of livelihood for the insouciant, but instead leaves us in the position of waiting for them to kill themselves off by negligent attrition at their own hands, and that's what you, penfish, are saying we must do?" ... Nope, cnaff, I didn't write that ... I basically asked a question of Rick: If (as I assume and may be wrong and please, Sir Rick, set me straight if I am incorrect) small dual-allegiance (rec and comm) tackle-shop owners sell tackle/lures to rec anglers and equipment to small commercial netters who do marginal harm to finfish, shellfish or the environment with their benign gear (skimmer trawls, f'instance), I also assume they don't sell comm equipment to the major fish-killing outfits (ocean-going ships that plow sounds' bottoms by dragging four tickler chains at once). So why would recs basically react with a boycott of small guys' bidnesses instead of pushing to get the big boys out of our sounds, especially when they do most of the damage? Once upon a time in the East, small-time trawlers and netters caused non-threatening damage to saltwater species and recs co-existed with them (I assume that is why rec spokespersons today claim they aren't trying to eradicate commercial fishing -- but assumptions are like opinions, everybody has one). Today the Pamlico and other big waters get scraped daily, sometimes by vessels not even from N.C. ..... of course gill nets are indiscriminate killers of fish and that gear needs to be tightly regulated .... and, of course, the MFC punted again by closing rec flounder season this fall but allowed comms to fish during Sept.'s and Oct.'s peak flatfish migration to the Atlantic even as DMF studies show comms annually kill and sell 80 percent of NC's captured flounders....that's serving up a s%$t sandwich to recs and telling them to take a big bite and be satisfied...However, if recs strike back by calling for a boycott on small tackle shops are we straining at gnats and swallowing camels (big trawlers)? I hope that's clear enough, although long-winded.
Many go fishing all their lives without knowing it is not fish they are after.
* Henry David Thoreau
Back to Top
kshivar View Drop Down
Pro
Pro
Avatar

Joined: 01 November 2004
Location: North Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 859
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kshivar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 September 2019 at 10:09am
Originally posted by penfish2 penfish2 wrote:

What we have here is failure to communicate: 

"Darwinian principal would rightly determine the loss of livelihood for
the insouciant, but instead leaves us in the position of waiting for
them to kill themselves off by negligent attrition at their own hands,
and that's what you, penfish, are saying we must do?"
... Nope, cnaff, I didn't write that ... I basically asked a question of Rick: If (as I assume and may be wrong and please, Sir Rick, set me straight if I am incorrect) small dual-allegiance (rec and comm) tackle-shop owners sell tackle/lures to rec anglers and equipment to small commercial netters who do marginal harm to finfish, shellfish or the environment with their benign gear (skimmer trawls, f'instance), I also assume they don't sell comm equipment to the major fish-killing outfits (ocean-going ships that plow sounds' bottoms by dragging four tickler chains at once). So why would recs basically react with a boycott of small guys' bidnesses instead of pushing to get the big boys out of our sounds, especially when they do most of the damage? Once upon a time in the East, small-time trawlers and netters caused non-threatening damage to saltwater species and recs co-existed with them (I assume that is why rec spokespersons today claim they aren't trying to eradicate commercial fishing -- but assumptions are like opinions, everybody has one). Today the Pamlico and other big waters get scraped daily, sometimes by vessels not even from N.C. ..... of course gill nets are indiscriminate killers of fish and that gear needs to be tightly regulated .... and, of course, the MFC punted again by closing rec flounder season this fall but allowed comms to fish during Sept.'s and Oct.'s peak flatfish migration to the Atlantic even as DMF studies show comms annually kill and sell 80 percent of NC's captured flounders....that's serving up a s%$t sandwich to recs and telling them to take a big bite and be satisfied...However, if recs strike back by calling for a boycott on small tackle shops are we straining at gnats and swallowing camels (big trawlers)? I hope that's clear enough, although long-winded.


Yes MFC punted as the comms pulled out the old “no presents under the tree” whiny argument. Yes recs got screwed again without so much as a kiss. The MFC will vote this way every time until it is truly comprised of members who support the resource instead of prostituting themselves to commercial shrimping and fishing. A boycott won’t happen. People will however stop buying equipment when there’s nothing left but lizardfish. The only thing i’ve bought all year are snap swivels. I can fish quite awhile with what I have already.
Back to Top
cnaff View Drop Down
Pro
Pro


Joined: 22 October 2006
Location: North Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 1071
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cnaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 September 2019 at 9:34am
Yep, pen fish, I concurr that the small time guys aren't the major operators of the bad gears. I do, however find gear placed these days which is not attended and thoroughly blocks access to certain fishing locations where I might have chosen to make some casts, but I can accept a certain amount of unattended gear when juxtaposed with the depredations of the big steel herd. But I hold the other stakeholders to intellectual honesty in the face of our current allocation and biomass depletion troubles, and the inability of commercial interests to iterate a voice for conservation means they deserve the pain of bad resource management by dint of their negligent silence. This silence from shop owners and small timers represents a form of resource negligence capture that threatens our fisheries for which we suffer today. We become stupidly thoughtless to lose the resource by toeing the line for status quo when there is honest conservation to be done for the benefit of all stakeholders. That's what we're missing. Why should we give awards to people who depend on a resource and silently watch it destroyed because of their CASH FLOW? Show me the interests who speak up for the resource. They are worth supporting. There are very few of them in NC. We are right to be ashamed of our fish cucked state of affairs.
V/H Dog
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 10.11
Copyright ©2001-2012 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.187 seconds.