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Just to be clear...

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    Posted: 08 June 2019 at 8:38am
Just to be clear about the MFC voting to approve Amendment 2 of the So. Flounder FMP:

Up through midnight Monday, June 3,   (i.e. public comment period and the AC's meetings- Northern, Southern, Finfish and Southern Flounder) , DMF had been recommending an August 1- September 30 season for recreational flounder harvest.

Over the next 24 hours, DMF rewrote their recommendation to immediately close the recreational fishing following the August MFC meeting. (This will be the afternoon of Friday, August 23.)

This was sprung on the Commissioners and the public at the 11th hour- just before the special MFC meeting at 1:00 Thursday, June 6.

I'm not arguing that the resulting new season will meet the 62% reduction (that's a discussion for another thread...) , BUT I am saying DMF lied and was deceitful to everyone. 

There was no new research data received, nor did divine revelation from the Heavens occur, after Monday night and into Tuesday, June 4 that required this last minute change. DMF purposely mislead us through the whole process and knew at the start that this would be the hand dealt to recreational fishing in the end. 

Talk about lack of transparency! 

I hope Governor Cooper is told of this and will hold DMF accountable for acting in such a deceitful manner and with no integrity toward North Carolina's citizens. Only Governor Cooper can clean up this corruption once and for all.

MFC Meeting, May 15-17

http://portal.ncdenr.org/c/document_library/get_file?p_l_id=1169848&folderId=32878700&name=DLFE-140515.pdf

Draft dated May 9, 2019, page 25:

− An Aug. 1 through Sept. 30 recreational hook-and-line and gig fishery.

− Allow RCGL large mesh gill nets to operate from Sept. 15 through Sept. 30.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

 

Joint AC Meeting, June 3

https://files.nc.gov/ncdeq/Coastal%20Management/1-DraftSoFlAm2-2019-05-23.pdf

Draft dated May 23, 2019, page 26:

− An Aug. 1 through Sept. 30 recreational hook-and-line and gig fishery;

− Allow RCGL large mesh gill nets to operate from Sept. 15 through Sept. 30

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

 

MFC Meeting, June 6

http://portal.ncdenr.org/c/document_library/get_file?p_l_id=1169848&folderId=32926130&name=DLFE-140721.pdf

Draft dated June 5, 2019, page 26:

− The recreational hook-and-line and gig flounder harvest season will close by proclamation immediately following the August 2019 MFC meeting and will not re-open until the identified season in 2020.

− Upon the closure of the recreational hook-and-line flounder harvest season, the RCGL large mesh gill net flounder harvest season will also close as the recreational and commercial seasons must both be open to allow this gear.


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bakesta View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bakesta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2019 at 9:38am
Why does this not surprise me???


Cooper had his chance to fix the mess at DMF and he completely blew it.


And this is the garbage that we are fed.AngryAngry



Thank you!-- to the 5 members of the MFC who refused to fall for this attempt to kill reform.  Clap







Edited by bakesta - 08 June 2019 at 10:49am
"Do the right thing. It will gratify some people and astonish the rest." --- Mark Twain
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TomM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2019 at 1:24pm
We had to know there was a hard to swallow pill somewhere. Big thanks to 5 mfc that stood tall.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chriselk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2019 at 3:30pm
The bulk of the recreational catches are in July and August, with additional substantial catches in early fall.  The new closure date will get rec reductions closer to the 62% goal, but recs are still predicted to not reach a 62% reduction this year.  So I agree with closing it with the new earlier August date.

It's too bad that this was not caught earlier by DMF.  I don't think they would do this on porpoise and bring down all the heat that comes with it.  Obviously, it would have better if this was caught earlier and could have been run by the ACs and public-the outcome would have been the same.  This compressed schedule made for everything being rushed.  When you rush, you miss things.  

I don't think the public realizes the intense pressure that was on Division staff to make this Amendment happen.  I think we should be praising them for helping to make these conservation changes happen, even if it was imperfect, sort of like life. 

Haven't we been calling for Conservation?

So it's not the closure itself that is the problem, it's just how it was instituted.  I understand everyones displeasure, I also got a little hot until I was told about the specifics.


The above comments are my personal opinion and do not represent those of any organizations or agencies I may be a member of.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2019 at 3:52pm

I agree with what Chris said above. While the optics are not the best, it’s necessary to get the recs harvest down.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TomM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2019 at 5:57pm
I have no problem with closure.The timing of the change bothered me. If you reduce nothing by 62% you have.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Redfisher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2019 at 7:49pm
I will never, ever praise the NCDMF.  We are where we are because of them.

*middle finger*
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2019 at 10:15pm
Having had two commissioners tell me that they did not realize the recreational season was changed in the DMF recommendation until after the vote is bothersome.

Number 1, the DMF put out the original recommendation to public comment and didn't tell the MFC that it had changed prior to the vote. Evidently they expected the MFC to find the one sentence change in all those pages.

Considering the number of people it affected and the DMF's history of ignoring recreational anglers I find it somewhat hard to believe the failure to communicate was accidental.

That being said, I agree with the end number in attaining the cuts needed.

The idea of a "poison pill" has come to mind. Thankfully the MFC is not going to let this stop what needs to be done as a poison pill would do.

The DMF has got to work on how they convey things to the public and they have to recognize the recreational sector is the largest user group they serve. This MFC has to be congratulated for not letting last minute changes from doing what has long been needed.



I am a native of NC. The "bycatch captial of the east coast of the US". Our legislature lets us kill more fish for no reason than any other Atlantic Coast state. I hope they are proud.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kshivar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2019 at 9:47am
The underhanded and deceptive manner in which this was done is quite troubling and surprising even for them. DMF needs an impartial director who is willing to protect the resource. It was clear at the 6/3 meeting that that is currently not the case. By extension, neither is the Governor.

Edited by kshivar - 10 June 2019 at 9:24am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Get Bowed Up Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2019 at 12:37pm
Should go BACK to ACs and public comment, period.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cwilli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2019 at 12:44pm
GBU,

And do you believe the AC would accept best available science when it does not agree with their pocketbook? Would any AC member vote against their pocketbook? Show me a situation where they have. The AC's are truly not stewards of our State resources, they are merely interested in maximum harvest.

Edited by cwilli - 09 June 2019 at 12:46pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Get Bowed Up Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2019 at 2:48pm
None of that matters, they have the right to debate and vote on exactly what is being presented as the division's recommendation, same goes for the public in their comments. Yes it could change after w a 6-3 vote, but anyone with insight knew what this vote would be, 5-4, sorry to say it out loud, but unfortunately it matters bc a more restrictive regulation liklely would not have passed.

It is unacceptable to change the recommendation after the MFC voted to send it out for public comment, AC meetings, and public comment. Call another super special meeting, I don't care, do it right!

Ray has stated two seats had no idea of the change until after they voted.

Clearly this reduction was going to happen and I'm not arguing against it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chuck Laughridge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2019 at 2:56pm
Well if two seats didn't realize it, they must have been outta the room as it was brought up by me and if I recall correctly, Comm Boltes responded as well.  So which two, Ray, and feel free to call or send an email.  

The ocean fishery for recs was also brought up and discussed by Boltes and me.

Good Fishing!!! 


Edited by Chuck Laughridge - 09 June 2019 at 2:59pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2019 at 8:36pm
Originally posted by Chuck Laughridge Chuck Laughridge wrote:

Well if two seats didn't realize it, they must have been outta the room as it was brought up by me and if I recall correctly, Comm Boltes responded as well.  So which two, Ray, and feel free to call or send an email.  

The ocean fishery for recs was also brought up and discussed by Boltes and me.

Good Fishing!!! 


...just to be clear, you can listen to it here-

http://www.ncdmf.net/audio/060619_mfc_audio/03-SouthernFlounderFisheryManagementPlanAmendment2.mp3

At 19:00 you can hear Mike explain the Division recommendation for the 2019 recreational season to close by proclamation after the Aug meeting.

At 35:00 you can hear Chuck clearly re-state the the Division recommendation to close the 2019 recreational season and not re-open it until 2020, discussion follows.

There is a lot of great discussion between 19:00 and 35:00 about the importance of the summer flounder recreational ocean fishery.





Edited by Rick - 09 June 2019 at 8:37pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lcg8978 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2019 at 7:49am
I think the idea of opening the ocean fishery for recs while inshore is closed is a bad idea. Down here in the southern part of the state, enforcement is basically non-existent outside of the weekend drunk patrols. It's not all summer flounder on the nearshore structure. Plenty of southern flounder and a few gulf mixed in occasionally, especially on the closer in structure. 

It really grinds my gears hearing all these folks who are concerned about "conservation" in this fishery whine about a rec closure. Shut it all down for a few years and be done with it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bakesta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2019 at 9:57am
I've called for a moratorium for over 10 years.  But only if it applies to all.


Now we have set up a year where recs get shut down in mid-august and commercial fishing will have unlimited harvest for several weeks when the fish are easiest to catch.


Commercial fishing takes the vast majority of the harvest and they have destroyed the population.  So of course, they get to continue fishing while recs get shut down.

And if you don't believe that they won't "cook the books" more than usual this fall to claim they lost more harvest, then I have some ocean front property in Kansas I'd like to sell you.Wink


We need a complete shut down if this species is going to recover.   And after that, commercial fishing can NOT resume with the current distribution ratio (recs vs comms) or they will deplete them again very quickly.







"Do the right thing. It will gratify some people and astonish the rest." --- Mark Twain
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2019 at 11:10am
GBU.....what the MFC voted for should stand.  Also, the DMF has explained the change of season for recs being necessitated by the numbers, so even if the MFC was not told prior to the meeting that the season has to close in August it still has to in order to meet the requested cuts.

That being said, I did listen to the tape and I fully understand how two or more commissioners may have not realized what they voted on was different than what they were told at their last meeting or what was sent to the public for comment.

If you listen to the tape....at no time....did anyone from the DMF explain that this was different than before and even when Chuck reiterated the dates he didn't point out that this was different than before.

I admit that had I been on the commission I may have been a third because so much of these meetings are rehashes of prior information and unless changes are specifically pointed out it would be easy for anyone to miss.

Chuck....I will call you soon.

So......I know the cuts have to be made and while I'm still concerned that NC prioritzies the net based industry rather than the general public I have to go along with these cuts.   But that being said.....the DMF was suspect, if not guilty, of changing their recommendations without specifically and carefully pointing that out to the MFC members at the meeting.   Any time there is a change from a prior recommendation great care should be taken in doing so and the reasons given.  It should not be the responsibility of the MFC to catch changes offered in DMF recommendations without them being pointed out.  Without such a warning a prudent individual on the MFC would believe that nothing has changed.   

I must also add this as an afterhought.   When the feds made NC reduce summer flounder harvest, the entire reduction was placed on the recs by the DMF(from 6 to 4) so why not in state waters repay the favor and cut the commercials accordingly since NC doesn't really manage by species specific but rather "inside versus outside" where we believe most flounder inside are southern and most outside are summer and have since the first southern flounder FMP began in 2000.


I am a native of NC. The "bycatch captial of the east coast of the US". Our legislature lets us kill more fish for no reason than any other Atlantic Coast state. I hope they are proud.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WaterDog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2019 at 1:22pm
We talked about the 2019 Rec Season at the AC level. I heard it discussed at the MFC level. Though in all fairness, if we were to criticize commission deicsions based on a few commissioners being either unprepared (aka not reading materials) or poorly informed....i dont think a single decision would ever be made. 

Whats the point of reductions if we cant meet them? As has been stated, that's the issue with the rec season in 2019. By the time the meeting comes around...we'll be close to our target so it'll need to close prematurely. Stinks but it is what it is - this fishery is in dire shape.

If you want to blame anyone - call up the NCFA and blame their ED, lobbyist and lawyer. They made this happen. 


Edited by WaterDog - 10 June 2019 at 1:31pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2019 at 2:33pm
Originally posted by WaterDog WaterDog wrote:

We talked about the 2019 Rec Season at the AC level. I heard it discussed at the MFC level. Though in all fairness, if we were to criticize commission deicsions based on a few commissioners being either unprepared (aka not reading materials) or poorly informed....i dont think a single decision would ever be made. 

Whats the point of reductions if we cant meet them? As has been stated, that's the issue with the rec season in 2019. By the time the meeting comes around...we'll be close to our target so it'll need to close prematurely. Stinks but it is what it is - this fishery is in dire shape.

If you want to blame anyone - call up the NCFA and blame their ED, lobbyist and lawyer. They made this happen. 
 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bakesta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2019 at 9:52am
I have a question.


Since the commercial season will close early this year, the total harvest should be available relatively early.


Will that number have any effect on next year?


In other words, if the reduction is 85% or only 45%, will there be a payback required in one direction or the other?   


I foresee a lot of "book cooking" to make the harvest look low.  


Bottom line - there should be a full moratorium.  That would be so much easier to monitorBig smile



And then we'd just have to address the millions of dead baby flounder produced by inshore shrimp trawlers.








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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ONEARMEDBANDIT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2019 at 10:29am
looks like Sucker Book has now 'Doxed", (someone  has posted pics, names cell numbers etc)  the NCDMF Board members, personal info.. Just a heads up.. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kshivar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2019 at 10:38am
Originally posted by ONEARMEDBANDIT ONEARMEDBANDIT wrote:

looks like Sucker Book has now 'Doxed", (someone  has posted pics, names cell numbers etc)  the NCDMF Board members, personal info.. Just a heads up.. 


Where?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ONEARMEDBANDIT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2019 at 10:47am
kshivar, I saw it "poster" posted on a (closed) fishing group.. I messaged the poster to please remove it.. The REC Fishing community is "up in ARMS" over this FMP.. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lcg8978 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2019 at 12:20pm
Someone just posted a screenshot of this page: http://portal.ncdenr.org/web/mf/north-carolina-marine-fisheries-commission

This is public information and is certainly not "doxing".  
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