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The Division's and NCFA's Christmas List

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Get Bowed Up View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Get Bowed Up Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 April 2019 at 4:19pm
Ray, you and I agree on that, but if I understand correctly according to one of the recent Bills filed in the house, some seek to silence the public's involvement by removing Regional ACs. (And I'm defending the concept of AC's, not who is on them past or present)

Edited by Get Bowed Up - 08 May 2019 at 11:14am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrackishWater Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 April 2019 at 5:24pm
I would advocate for doing away with the Regional AC's and the FMP AC's if you sincerely want to improve the FMP process. They offer nothing more than speed bumps along the process.

In their place, I would suggest a science advisory committee that can be consulted by the MFC and DMF as needed and on FMP's. This would be similar to the WRC model. They only have one citizen advisory committee. 

The public will still be allowed to comment on proposed FMP's, but show me what positive role any AC has provided in NC Fisheries Management history. Do you really think Buddy Roe continues to be appointed to AC's because he brings something positive to the discussion? You should have attended the Southern flounder FMP AC and had to listen to the comments from Bradley Styron. 
A rising tide lifts all boats...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 April 2019 at 5:33pm
I have always opposed regional AC's even though I grew up in a very eastern part of NC.

Do we allow people who live in the mountains more say on how the sky is managed simply because they live closer to it?

Of course not, we all own the sky collectively as we own the water. Proximity does not carry the gift of priority.

Now if you wish to divide the state in sections by population and then give each section an equal say then that type of regional representation I could support.
I am a native of NC. The "bycatch captial of the east coast of the US". Our legislature lets us kill more fish for no reason than any other Atlantic Coast state. I hope they are proud.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TomM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 April 2019 at 6:36pm
I can vote for that
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cnaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 April 2019 at 9:14am
The central question is can a fishery managed by those who would place top priority on profit and unfettered take be regulated to provide benefit to all the citizens of the state. The key is to allow the biomass to exist in various age classes that sustain the biomass by recruitment, and fecundity by abundance of adult fish. The paradigm that we are just going to move forward without those key elements in place and treated as sacrosanct and still say we have a fishery for the benefit of all is a lie and yet so thoroughly pushed by the few who control the system that it is utterly reasonable, from a position of logic, to say our fishery is controlled by a bunch of deluded liars who will flaunt science and lie about it purely because that has worked for them for so many years. But the recruitment and abundance are what sustain a fishery, so even the fantasy of the present kills its own resource, and the people who have been fed the nonsense while seeing reality will naturally hate those who lie to them. As these events play out, the culture of conflicted self interest on the coast has propagated itself to the point where would be fish managers view the public interest as as being an impediment to their own selfish aims and the interested public as a basket of deplorables (see BW, Get Bowed). They embrace management by stealth and smokescreen, using deflection and disengenuous pseudoscience, and it colors everything they do within the realm of the fishery THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO PROTECT. This has resulted in a sad joke of a fishery in NC, where only sunlight and reform of the system can possibly retrieve a healthy biomass from the jaws of certain ignominious destruction. The contempt of our fish managers and their controllers for the public is prominent in both the asmfc and the DMF and the MFC is largely held in sway to this contempt, and the actions of these bodies are still tantamount to a kibuki dance where the outcome is foregone. In this sense, NC fishery management has been successful, given the goals of the actors who drive it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Get Bowed Up Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 April 2019 at 9:15am
BW I really find it troubling when an NGO is advocating removing or greatly limiting public involvement in the process.

Mr. Brown I can't really debate extremes like sky management and I suppose representation based on population as suggested would be interesting, what about having a random drawing of NC residents to be on the MFC?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote todobien Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 April 2019 at 9:21am
Bowed - Is NCFA a NGO?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 April 2019 at 9:27am
Random drawing?

With all due respect, do you think NC or the US needs to be governed by individuals drawn at random from a pool?

But that is not the issue, is it?  The reall issue is disappearing fish stocks and the ongoing battle to keep harvest open or change the topic so the real issue is forgotten.

Let them spawn, let them grow, let them be used by the masses and not by a few under the premise of "for the masses".   

Once the stocks are viable, and the masses have first dibs for their own interactive use, then if there are any left let us talk about commercializing them.

In the meantime, let those seeking profits grow their own, nourish them, dress them and ship them as has been done successfully with beef, swine, and fowl for many years and in other parts of the world....seafood.

Without aquaculture the future is without seafood.  If legislators keep turning a back on the issue of declining wild stocks then there will be no aquaculture in America large enough to supply the masses when all fish stocks resemble river herring's plight.

Random drawing?  At first I want to laugh, but then I realize that fishery management in NC, because of the way it has been done, has never been about science and planning, it's always been a lottery pick depending on who was holding the box and who was drawing the ticket.

No.....absolutely no....we've had enough random drawing management.   Can't we grow up and manage with people who have vision and are not dependent on short term profits either in cash or grant money to manage our fisheries?  We love to defer reduction in harvest and pay someone to do another study in NC.  We need people like our current MFC who saw a problem and stood up.  Now we need to move the electorate to back them.
I am a native of NC. The "bycatch captial of the east coast of the US". Our legislature lets us kill more fish for no reason than any other Atlantic Coast state. I hope they are proud.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Get Bowed Up Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 April 2019 at 3:11pm
Mr.Brown on many of your points above we again agree.

Per NOAA who has invested over 100mil into aquculture research still seems to contend the largest hurdles are investors willing to fork out the capital needed, then it would appear industries that fight things like offshore open pen leases bc of the possible impacts on wild stocks. Given the vast majority of research related to cobia come via aquaculture I've learned a good deal on the topic. But to keep it short, I'm not at all against aquaculture but this too is not free of $$ motivation.





Edited by Get Bowed Up - 24 April 2019 at 10:52pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 April 2019 at 9:42pm
Good. Agreement is always positive.
I am a native of NC. The "bycatch captial of the east coast of the US". Our legislature lets us kill more fish for no reason than any other Atlantic Coast state. I hope they are proud.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chriselk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 April 2019 at 6:17am
Originally posted by Get Bowed Up Get Bowed Up wrote:

Mr.Brown on many of your points above we again agree.

Per NOAA who has invested over 100mil into aquculture research still seems to contend the largest hurdles are investors willing to fork out the capital needed, then it would appear industries that fight things like offshore open pen leases bc of the possible impacts on wild stocks. Given the vast majority of research related to cobia come via aquaculture I've learned a good deal on the topic. But to keep it short, I'm not at all against aquaculture but this too is not free of $$ motivation.




Offshore aquaculture is under the auspices of SAFMC, as well as others.  Please read the SAFMC FEP pertaining to aquaculture in the South Atlantic.


You will quickly see that money is the least of the obstacles.  

The SAFMC is waiting to use the Gulf Aquaculture experience in order to learn from them.  However:

Due to a recent court ruling, NOAA is not issuing permits for aquaculture in federal waters of the Gulf of Mexico, 
The above comments are my personal opinion and do not represent those of any organizations or agencies I may be a member of.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Get Bowed Up Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 April 2019 at 9:39am
Chris, of course money isn't an issue, it doesn't get as high as the UN with out it.

"In the United States, marine aquaculture production increased an average of 3.3 percent per year from 2009-2014, however, globally, the U.S. remains a relatively minor aquaculture producer. Although a small producer, the United States is a major player in global aquaculture. The nation supplies a variety of advanced technology, feed, equipment, and investment capital to other producers around the world."

https://www.fisheries.noaa.gov/national/aquaculture/us-aquaculture

This includes tax dollars.


I'm digging through files to find the article that states my reply to Mr. Brown and even repeated by the gulf rep earlier this month.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2019 at 9:10am

554 moves forward in the Senate with a  46-1 vote.  It appears to be ready to make the 9th crossover deadline.


This bill is bad and needs to die in the House.


fiogf49gjkf0d
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bakesta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2019 at 9:57am
46 to 1 ???


There must be something good in there.

Is NCWF against it?


I'm still not sure I see what's bad.   More scientists sounds good.


edit

I went back and re-read the whole thing.  As usual - if good people are put in charge, this will be a good bill.  If the usual suspects are left in control, this - like all of FRA97  - can be used to preserve status quo.


If we ever get senate and house leaders, and a governor,  who all want to fix our collapsing fish stocks, it will easily happen.






Edited by bakesta - 08 May 2019 at 11:01am
"Do the right thing. It will gratify some people and astonish the rest." --- Mark Twain
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2019 at 11:12am

...too much control given to DMF, which wouldn't be bad if senior management was truly following the Division's mission statement.  As it stands, this is just subterfuge designed to subjugate the Commission to the will of the Division.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Glacierbaze Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2019 at 11:39am
With one quick read through, that was my impression, as well. I would like to see the Commission make rules and policy, and the DMF execute them. As usual, the interest of the State seem to be protecting resource takers, and not the resource.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bakesta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2019 at 11:59am
I'd be happy with eliminating the MFC and forcing the DMF to answer for everything.  And then fixing the DMF.

As it stands now, the MFC is one appointment away from reverting back to 2006 -- total comm control.  MFC has always been a mess.  Over history, very few on there have been qualified to make a wise fisheries decision.








"Do the right thing. It will gratify some people and astonish the rest." --- Mark Twain
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cnaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2019 at 7:59am
Thanks for making the political and arcane understandable. With such as the extant structure to hold the political foot on our throats, it would indeed be better to only have one entity upon which to place the lai of responsibility, and then force their asses to conserve the resource. Remember that most of us, or at least I, do not possess the realistic social and political acumen to discern the machinations of our debacle, so it helps when you guys spell out the true nature of this beast we're up against.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cnaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2019 at 10:14am
And there is the fact that public input on how the resource is managed is suppressed, serially and by numerous methods. If we could invoke an awakened public interested in the resource's disposition, and also end the status quo practice of ensuring the conflicted of interest get to determine allotment, we could have a fishery beneficial to all .c
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