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House Bills Filed Today (March 27)

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    Posted: 17 April 2019 at 9:14am

House Bill- 810
DRH10488-MH-139.PDF



















Edited by Rick - 17 April 2019 at 9:14am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chuck Laughridge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2019 at 8:54am
I've been told by 3 folks in the audience that Rep Pittman stated there are no big fish being caught on piers  because there are to many little ones that beat em to the bait (spots/croakers). 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Redfisher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2019 at 8:38am

Yeah Rep. Pittman, a big conspiracy.  Idiot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2019 at 8:32am


Commentary from Laura Leslie at WRAL from yesterday:

 

Fishing Bills

It's almost as predictable as the return of spring: every session, one or more North Carolina state lawmakers will file a bill favoring either the state's commercial fishing industry or the recreational fishing industry. The two sides have been at odds for years, each blaming the other for the state's dwindling supply of fish and accusing the other of mismanagement and waste. Fisheries management officials often find themselves caught between the two powerful and vocal lobbies, which then turn to state lawmakers to fight their battles in the General Assembly.

One of the bills passed Tuesday, House Bill 486, Commercial Fishing License Reforms, would, according to sponsor Rep. Larry Yarborough, protect the state's commercial fisheries by setting stricter guidelines for who can get a commercial fishing license, how many licenses there are, and how they're allotted. "North Carolina's commercial landings have been steadily declining over the last 20 years," Yarborough said, saying the decline is almost completely in finfish, rather than shellfish.

Yarborough, R-Person, said a 2018 study by the state's Marine Fisheries Commission found that only 46% of the people who hold commercial fishing licenses in North Carolina "actually sell fish and generate trip tickets." The rest, he said, have licenses passed down in the family, but aren't really commercial fishermen. "These are really recreational fisherman acting as commercial fisherman. They're not recorded," Yarborough said. "We have no way of knowing how much they catch or how badly they're damaging the commercial fishery." The bill would define a commercial fishing operation as one that either harvests 1,000 pounds of seafood a year or makes fifteen registered trips. Those who don't meet those criteria for at least two of the five years before their license expires would have their licenses deactivated and, eventually, put back into the pool. However, the measure would make up for the reduced number of commercial fishing licenses by doubling the fees - from $400 a year to $800. Recreational fees would increase by a few dollars.

Jerry Schill with the NC Fisheries Association said commercial fishermen in the state are "overwhelmingly opposed" to the bill. He said part-time commercial fishermen would be driven out of business by the changes.

Another measure, House Bill 483, "Let Them Spawn," also passed by a larger margin. It would instruct the Department of Marine Fisheries to set minimum size limits for fish with the goal of allowing at least 75 percent of each year's harvest to have spawned at least once. The measure wouldn't apply to all species, Yarborough said. Red drum, for example, take five years to mature, he explained, so they would be exempt. But croakers, spot and flounder would be subject to the minimums. "For the past five years, southern flounder has been going down 30 percent every year," Yarborough said. "We're hoping to stop the decline."

The NC Fisheries Association is opposed to the measure, calling it "lacking in common sense, scientific reasoning and a general knowledge of the biology of marine fishes," and warning that such a measure could lead to overfishing of female fish, which tend to be larger. 

 

(Laura Leslie, WRAL NEWS, 4/16/19)

 




Edited by Rick - 17 April 2019 at 9:18am
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From page 3 of HB 810: STRICKEN/REMOVED 

27 (c) To assist in the development of each Fishery Management Plan, the Chair of the 
28 Marine Fisheries Commission shall appoint a fishery management plan advisory committee. 
29 Each fishery management plan advisory committee shall be composed of commercial fishermen, 
30 recreational fishermen, and scientists, all with expertise in the fishery for which the Fishery 
31 Management Plan is being developed.
32 (c1) The Department shall consult with the regional advisory committees established 
33 pursuant to G.S. 143B-289.57(e) regarding the preparation of each Fishery Management Plan. 
34 Before submission of a plan for review by the Joint Legislative Commission on Governmental
35 Operations, the Department shall review any comment or recommendation regarding the plan 
36 that a regional advisory committee submits to the Department within the time limits established 
37 in the Schedule for the development and adoption of Fishery Management Plans established by 
38 G.S. 143B-289.52. Before the Commission adopts a management measure to implement a plan, 
39 the Commission shall review any comment or recommendation regarding the management 
40 measure that a regional advisory committee submits to the Commission.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote j.willis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 April 2019 at 7:45pm
HB 810


Short Title: Marine Fisheries Reforms

Sponsor: Rep. Yarborough

(It's 15 pages in length- too long to post on ncwaterman.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chuck Laughridge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 April 2019 at 7:23pm
May also want to look at HB 810 (filed today) and how it is a bit "different" from SB 554 (the NCDMF "Christms wish" bill). 

Edited by Chuck Laughridge - 16 April 2019 at 7:24pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 April 2019 at 4:07pm
Glad to hear this, but historically things die in Rules. Maybe times are changing? We shall see.

I wonder if I suggest closing the harvest season entirely during mid October to mid November as they migrate to the sea to spawn at the next MFC meeting if the gallery would allow me to get back to my car.

Due to latitudinal differences I suspect the southern flounder fall migration begins in eastern NC from two weeks to a month before it does in Alabama. Even Forest Gump's folks get it.

Edited by Ray Brown - 16 April 2019 at 4:12pm
I am a native of NC. The "bycatch captial of the east coast of the US". Our legislature lets us kill more fish for no reason than any other Atlantic Coast state. I hope they are proud.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 April 2019 at 3:00pm

Great job at 2:00 today by Rep. Yarborough moving these two bills out of the Wildlife Resources House Standing Committee.

No surprise- Jerry Schill was "honored" by Rep Cleveland to speak against both bills as the only public speaker.

No surprises that Pittman and Cleveland led the charges against both bills.  

Cleveland did so with a list of problems for "let them spawn" from an unnamed retired marine biologist.  ...any one wish to bet on that being Jess Hawkins?  When questioned for a name, Cleveland refused to give it.

Poor Rep. Pittman tried to make the case that the problem with spot and croaker is that we're not catching enough.  When he goes down to pier fish all he can catch is a bunch of small croakers.  "There are so many croaker that the big ones can't get a chance to bite his hook for all the little ones."

Let them spawn bill now moves forward-  to Environment, if favorable, Rules, Calendar, and Operations of the House

License reform bill now moves forward-  to Appropriations, Agriculture and Natural and Economic Resources, if favorable, Appropriations, if favorable, Rules, Calendar, and Operations of the House






Edited by Rick - 16 April 2019 at 3:02pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TomM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2019 at 6:58pm
Makes too much sense for NC😩
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2019 at 4:25pm

Alabama agrees, let them spawn-



https://www.al.com/news/2019/04/size-limits-to-tighten-for-speckled-trout-and-flounder.html?outputType=amp

Edited by Rick - 06 April 2019 at 4:30pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kshivar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 March 2019 at 2:28pm
DMF will want more studies.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bakesta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 March 2019 at 11:35am
The spawn bill is based on the DMF stock status report.

Is this it?



If yes, then 8 species of fish will be covered.  Weakfish, spot, etc won't be covered.  


Southern flounder are at the point where I don't even catch many small ones any more in the western pamlico.  For several years there were a lot of 13 inchers that would make the day fun.  They seemed to go away about 3 or 4 years ago.  

The entire stock status of NC is just so pitiful that it's hard to understand why these bills would not pass with unanimous support.   

Can't wait to hear how the "scientists" at DMF react.



 




"Do the right thing. It will gratify some people and astonish the rest." --- Mark Twain
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FishCommander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2019 at 3:07pm
Spot on Ray. Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Get Bowed Up Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2019 at 2:31pm
Originally posted by Redfisher Redfisher wrote:




Get Bowed Up,


You ask a lot of questions but never give us any answers or opinions.



Right to hunt and fish, ACs, CSMA 2,special meeting, DMF funding, "influence" in appointments, I've given opinions on as a whole or on certain topics/actions. So I'd have to respectfully disagree with your comment.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kshivar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2019 at 1:40pm
Reverend!! Well said Ray. A phone call from Cooper to DEQ could change this trajectory and he could fulfill a promise he made to us, the voters.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2019 at 11:43am
Get Bowed......an afterthought to my post above.

I'm stepping into Rick's territory a bit since we have all come to lean on him for numbers, but there are two concepts that a lot of folks need to see and understand the implications from that have to do with fishing pressure in NC and how NC prioritizes.

The first is southern flounder management in NC that historically allows 80% of harvest or more to go to commercial nets because of what our laws allow.   Less than 2,000 people get 80% of the fish and they get a public trust for personal monetary gain.   1.5 million citizens and visitors get to split the other 20% of the public trust resource.   Other states managed with a reversed objective.  By their rules the 1.5 million would split the 80% or more and commercial harvest would get the rest. That is why NC citizens get 4 flounder per day when they go to the water while citizens in other states get from two to four times that amount because those states don't promote a commercial fishery on estuarine species.   I'll refrain from saying one is right and one is wrong, but everyone looking for answers should see this reality.  Again, you get what you manage for and NC manages so that net based commercial fisheries get top priority.

For those that say NC should manage all public assets for best economic use then I'll simply ask why aren't we applying that to marine resources?

We know that NC's recreational fishery industry is worth about 1.6 billion dollars per year while the commercial net based industry is worth about 300 million per year to the state.  Let that sink in slowly.

There is no doubt which industry means the most economically to NC.  None!  Nada!

So why do we spend time, and actually make decisions in this state, or have to introduce bills like these to maintain fish stocks, or even worse, pass regulations that are not conducive to sustainable fish stocks, all to prop up an industry that is six times smaller than the largest.  And on top of all that we give priority to the smallest as some form of subsidy.

I served on the first southern flounder AC formed in the year 2,000.   From day one we knew the fish was over fished and over fishing was continuing.  Commercials were getting 80% or more of the harvest.  The DMF biologists at the time were saying a 40% cut was needed.  The net based industry and their allies fought tooth and nail and with "apologies" the MFC voted for a cut based on size harvest dates that was under 20% saying, "we hope the science is wrong."

Well, the science wasn't wrong.  We are catching nearly as many pounds of southern flounder today as back then but with 15 inch fish rather than 11 inch fish meaning we are catching a heck of lot less fish today than back then.  That number of 58% to 72% cuts needed now is simply what NC gets for not addressing real issues in a timely manner.  Anecdotally recs just don't see flounder in the sound and rivers where they did, even in 2000 when a 40% cut was all we needed to rebound.

We sacrificed to a great degree what southern flounder we had in 2000 for that net based commercial industry which is 6 times smaller than the industry which represents the most citizens.  That reality is now hitting home, and the cries you hear as a real cut back is approaching, aren't from people who are anti commercial fishermen by nature, it is finally the cry of people fussing with legislators and regulators for letting us get into this mess to begin with because of the pressure we allow on our species in NC by gear and methods long outlawed in other states.

Sorry for the rant, but count me as one of those who blames the state entirely for where we are.  They prioritized wrong and the resource and we the owners of the resource are now paying the price.






Edited by Ray Brown - 28 March 2019 at 11:54am
I am a native of NC. The "bycatch captial of the east coast of the US". Our legislature lets us kill more fish for no reason than any other Atlantic Coast state. I hope they are proud.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Redfisher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2019 at 10:48am

The fact that Seiglar posts that stuff shows the arrogance of the opposition to sustainable fisheries.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kshivar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2019 at 10:19am
It is astonishing anyone could be so ignorant. Buddy Roe apparently advocates killing all the drum as the spots, croakers and greys already have been. Just infuriating.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2019 at 9:20am

… the typical commercial fishing rhetoric begins-



I'll remind you what Ken Seigler had to say about red drum-



… and what the former vice-chair of the Finfish AC, Pam Morris had to say about red drum-




Edited by Rick - 28 March 2019 at 10:13am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2019 at 8:54am
Originally posted by Get Bowed Up Get Bowed Up wrote:

Is there anything we can see that's an example of this 75% management?
 

...I can't think of "anything" in actual practice, so lets look at theory-

Southern Flounder

From the 2018 Stock Assessment-
Maturity & Reproduction Southern flounder maturity at length was estimated for this assessment using data collected by Midway and Scharf (2012) and samples collected by Monaghan and Armstrong (2000) that were restaged using protocols developed by Midway et al. (2013). ASAP requires maturity to be specified by age. Maturity at age was not estimated in Midway et al. (2013); however, since maturity at length in Midway and Scharf (2012) was nearly identical to estimates in Midway et al. (2013), maturity at age was assumed to be time-invariant according to Midway and Scharf (2012) (Table 3.7). To estimate female-only SSB from January 1 biomass of combined sexes, maturity was entered as the maturity at age multiplied by the proportion female at age (Table 3.8).

















...and from the supplement-





So....75% of the females are mature and had an opportunity to spawn at 17" in length.

….but, the "biology" of the fish suggests that a single size limit may not be the best way to manage Southern flounder, or maybe not.

You smart guys look at the tables above and tell me whether the fact that males don't get much bigger than 15" makes a difference when setting size limits.

What happens to the males?  

Am I reading Table 3.8 correct that by age-3 93% of the stock sampled is all females?  If so, then the length at age disparity between males and females doesn't matter in management because a female needs to reach age-3 for 75% to be mature.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drumwagon1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2019 at 8:44am
Taking the trawlers out of pamlico sound our fishing will improve. You know, you don't have to be real smart to figure that out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Redfisher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2019 at 7:40am
Get Bowed Up,


You ask a lot of questions but never give us any answers or opinions.


Edited by Redfisher - 28 March 2019 at 7:40am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 March 2019 at 10:44pm
Get Bowed... You raise an interesting and, when considered, an insight into why the answer to your question is probably "no".

Go to the NMFS commercial landings and look at the landings for these species by state. It won't take long before you see that only NC has an extensive commercial fishery on these species. That simply means the pressure on these species in other states is not what it is in NC.

NC has no choice because of this reality. In order to sustain our fisheries we have to maximize in water production because our harvest pressure is so much greater than most states.

I am not trying to be obstinate or antagonistic. I am just pointing out what has been known and identified for years.

Other states can be more liberal with size and creel because they don't allow entanglement nets who can't accurately cull nor do those states tolerate other gear such as as otter trawls to the extent we do which on some species also reduces our biomass.

In short, we have to be different with recs because we are so different with commercial harvest and commercial gear than other states. It isn't rocket science. If you give to one side, you take from the other. We are unique. We give priority to the net based industry on gear use and harvest method and let recs have what is left after the commercial formula is applied. Virtually every other state gives priority to the individual fishing public with commercial activity only after the desires of the general fishing population is satisfied.

Sadly, what we allow doesn't promote abundance so over time the numbers continue to shrink.

We get what we manage for. And that is why I would answer your question "no" because of how they manage without allowing destructive commercial gear or practices, other states don't have to assure themselves that 75% of their fish have to attain sexual maturity. We simply have what Dr. Daniel has said for years.."too much pressure" on the stocks we have.

Who does the state give priority to? Isn't that the real question? We know what our stocks look like after making commercial harvest a priority here in NC. We know what creel and size limits look like in other states who give priority to the general public.

When was the last time we asked the citizens of NC who they felt should have priority of harvest? Or have we ever asked the public for their opinion after giving them all the facts?



Edited by Ray Brown - 28 March 2019 at 7:36am
I am a native of NC. The "bycatch captial of the east coast of the US". Our legislature lets us kill more fish for no reason than any other Atlantic Coast state. I hope they are proud.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kshivar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 March 2019 at 9:12pm
Originally posted by Get Bowed Up Get Bowed Up wrote:

Originally posted by kshivar kshivar wrote:

Originally posted by Get Bowed Up Get Bowed Up wrote:

Is there anything we can see that's an example of this 75% management?
    What? It’s a safe bet it’s 75% better than mismanagement.


Not questioning the concept, merely asking if it's been implemented somewhere else.
   Understood. But do the math. 75% of something is better than 100% of nothing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Get Bowed Up Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 March 2019 at 8:47pm
Originally posted by kshivar kshivar wrote:

Originally posted by Get Bowed Up Get Bowed Up wrote:

Is there anything we can see that's an example of this 75% management?
    What? It’s a safe bet it’s 75% better than mismanagement.


Not questioning the concept, merely asking if it's been implemented somewhere else.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TomM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 March 2019 at 8:43pm
GBU we can easily see what less than 75% leaves us. You have better suggestions
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kshivar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 March 2019 at 8:24pm
Originally posted by Get Bowed Up Get Bowed Up wrote:

Is there anything we can see that's an example of this 75% management?
    What? It’s a safe bet it’s 75% better than mismanagement.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Get Bowed Up Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 March 2019 at 8:13pm
Is there anything we can see that's an example of this 75% management?
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