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    Posted: 01 October 2018 at 9:56am
I would like to hear everyone's thoughts on the proposed amendment to the NC constitution regarding the vote on the ballot to enact as a "right" to all NC citizens the ability to hunt and fish NC wildlife.

Is this just a ploy by the republicans to insure a strong voter turnout??

Are they appealing to the commercial fisherman by insuring they will always have the argument in the courts that they have a right to their livelihood?

Other thoughts??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2018 at 3:22pm
I am voting against it because we have numerous laws allowing us to fish and hunt. It potentially opens more issues than guarantees them.


Shrimp trawling never stops in Pamlico Sound. It just pauses on the weekend so crabs can remove the dead and dying from the battlefield.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote themoose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2018 at 3:49pm
I will vote against it because it originally had language that excepted commercial fishing from the language, but the commercial fishing interests lobbied to change that...

I don't want anything in the constitution that allows those greedy jackals anything that could possibly grandfather their gear in.  I want to see gill nets only in a maritime museum, right next to whale harpoons.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hghcpa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2018 at 3:56pm
i too am voting against it and since it is established as the first proposed change on the ballot have to assume the pubs are using it as a voter turnout tool
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2018 at 4:09pm
I'm voting against it also at this point, but would like to reconsider as I fully support anything to keep the PETA type at bay. 

While House leadership and an attorney very familiar with coastal fisheries law have both assured me that the bill only pertains to WRC controlled trapping in regard to commercial gear/harvesting "traditional measures" and all fishing references only pertain to recreational inland fishing controlled by WRC regulations, it is a lawsuit waiting for Jerry to file.

There is good advice in the following that my personal attorney sent to me today in his monthly newsletter-

But there are a few issues that you may want to consider. First, judges don’t always understand, agree on, or follow the law. On June 5, 2018, the North Carolina Court of Appeals issued opinions in 10 civil cases. In half of these 10 cases, the Court of Appeals affirmed the trial court with no dissent. In three cases, the Court of Appeals affirmed, but there was a dissent. In one case, the trial court judgment was vacated. And in one case, the Court of Appeals said the trial court got part of it right and part of it wrong. Three days later, the North Carolina Supreme Court issued 5 opinions in civil cases. One was reversed and remanded. Two were affirmed without dissent. And two were affirmed but had dissenting opinions. Without any knowledge of the substance of the cases, we can say that in the first half of June 2018, the North Carolina appellate courts didn’t fully approve what the lower courts did in about half of the cases, and in several they sent the case back down with instructions to do it over. No matter how good your case is, you can always lose.

I have seen a lot of things happen in court that shouldn’t have happened. Most of the time the cases don’t get appealed. The litigants get mad with their lawyers, the judge, the legal system, and the opposing party. But they don’t want to keep spending money fighting when there are no guarantees. The solution is to stay out of court. If you can’t stay out of court, you need to win at the trial level. 

Jerry is damn good at filing suit in Carteret County under a judge friendly to commercial fishing.

We have seen that the NCDMF/NCDEQ/NCMFC have no intentions of fighting lawsuits.  They capitulate to Jerry's demands without an ounce of fight.

We have also seen that the NCDMF has no qualms about setting legal policy when authority to do so was vested only in the commission or the legislature.

Jerry set the stage in his weekly comments on June 29th as to his intent to ensure "traditional methods" include commercial fishing gears.

S-677 “Protect Right to Hunt and Fish”:

 

This is a constitutional amendment that will be on the November ballot for voters to decide if they believe the right to hunt and fish should be in our state’s constitution. The original language in the bill appeared to be ok, but late last week the wording was changed that would exclude “commercial activities” from the same protections as others. In other words, our interpretation was that if approved as written and approved by the voters, it would be a constitutional RIGHT to hunt and fish, and a PRIVILEGE if you were involved in hunting or fishing commercially. Obviously that would include commercial fishing and any other fishing such as charter, headboat, guides, etc. In addition, it was our interpretation that it would also affect trappers as they sell pelts or fur and are thus commercial activities.

 

There was a flurry of activity when Rep. George Cleveland had an amendment drafted to eliminate the words “commercial activities” and the House “stood at ease” while discussions took place in the Speaker’s office, but when the dust settled, it was agreed to eliminate “commercial activities”, preventing the need for Rep. Cleveland’s amendment. The measure was approved by the House and the Senate and will be on the ballot for voters to consider in November.


As it reads-

Sec. 38. Right to hunt, fish, and harvest wildlife.

The right of the people to hunt, fish, and harvest wildlife is a valued part of the State's heritage and shall be forever preserved for the public good. The people have a right, including the right to use traditional methods, to hunt, fish, and harvest wildlife, subject only to laws enacted by the General Assembly and rules adopted pursuant to authority granted by the General Assembly to (i) promote wildlife conservation and management and (ii) preserve the future of hunting and fishing. Public hunting and fishing shall be a preferred means of managing and controlling wildlife. Nothing herein shall be construed to modify any provision of law relating to trespass, property rights, or eminent domain.


State general statute is clear in the definition of "wildlife"-

§ 113-129.  Definitions relating to resources. The following definitions and their cognates apply in the description of the various marine and estuarine and wildlife resources:

(16) Wildlife. – Wild animals; wild birds; all fish found in inland fishing waters; and inland game fish. Unless the context clearly requires otherwise, the definitions of wildlife, wildlife resources, wild animals, wild birds, fish, and the like are deemed to include species normally wild, or indistinguishable from wild species, which are raised or kept in captivity. Nothing in this definition is intended to abrogate the exclusive authority given the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services to regulate the production and sale of pen-raised quail for food purposes.


...but that doesn't mean a judge in Beaufort that is a former law partner of Steve Week's will follow law and it certainly doesn't mean that anyone will step-up to the plate to appeal or file a counter suit.  That sure as heck hasn't happened for Southern flounder, turtles, sturgeon or properly defining nursery areas.



Edited by Rick - 01 October 2018 at 5:14pm
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Against
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TomM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2018 at 6:13pm
I will probably vote against all of them. They should have had more discussion and be more well defined.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bread Man 1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2018 at 9:30pm
Nc Sound Economy supports it..............
Pretty good comments on the NC Sound Economy Facebook page. It is all way way way too vague. There are ulterior motives. We all know it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bread Man 1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2018 at 9:32pm
I am against it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WaterDog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2018 at 11:46pm
I am against it because, after many discussions, I have heard nothing but extreme concern with its potential legal ramifications. Some of the recreational “conservation groups” are more interested in schmoozing with theor big buddies in NC GOP leadership than they are actually pursuing marine conservation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote francoind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 October 2018 at 2:49pm
I am voting against it. just smells.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrackishWater Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 October 2018 at 12:30pm
The latest poll I read last night showed the amendment passing with 64% voting in favor. Yes, the Republicans put the measure on the ballot to get more conservatives out to vote in a mid-term election year. And the polling is in the 70% favorable range for those identifying themselves as conservative.

CCA NC legal counsel has long advised that if it passes it will not provide any protection to commercial fishing since coastal fish stocks in non-joint, coastal waters are not wildlife by any stretch of the imagination. 

A rising tide lifts all boats...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2018 at 12:54pm
Looks like Steve House received Jerry's memo-

That crowd in Dare County needs to start drinking bottled water- Beverly Boswell and now Steve House infected with the same illness...ignorance. 







Edited by Rick - 24 October 2018 at 12:58pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Glacierbaze Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2018 at 2:52pm
The man clearly needs some grammar lessons.  Is he saying, "I am voting NO......., or is he saying, "If you are voting NO,.......?

Edited by Glacierbaze - 24 October 2018 at 2:52pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Get Bowed Up Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2018 at 4:38pm
Yes here, but I do see how it will mislead people. I'm not going to let the use of any gear type prevent an opportunity to insure current and future generations have the RIGHT to hunt and fish in NC.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote themoose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2018 at 5:06pm
Originally posted by Get Bowed Up Get Bowed Up wrote:

Yes here, but I do see how it will mislead people. I'm not going to let the use of any gear type prevent an opportunity to insure current and future generations have the RIGHT to hunt and fish in NC.

That is insane.  

There is no threat to hunting and fishing rights.  Other than depleted resources in terms of game and fish, and places to hunt them.  This amendment is merely a tool trying to bring more Republicans to the polls.  Well, this Republican is voting against this amendment, because he understands it.

Vote against this, and bring it back specifically stating that nothing in the amendment applies to commercial interests.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kshivar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2018 at 5:27pm
This one is voting ‘No’.
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No
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote marker39 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2018 at 6:00pm
I guess this amendment will ensure my "right" to hunt passenger pigeons.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2018 at 6:01pm
Originally posted by Get Bowed Up Get Bowed Up wrote:

Yes here, but I do see how it will mislead people. I'm not going to let the use of any gear type prevent an opportunity to insure current and future generations have the RIGHT to hunt and fish in NC.
 

Actually Billy has a good point-

Let's look at possibilities.

Below is the original bill (follow the line numbers for amendments)-




Pricey Harrison made the following amendment and then withdrew it-



Pricey Harrison made the following amendment and it failed.


Pricey Harrison made the following amendment and it failed.







 Here is the 3rd edition showing line numbers-


Here is the constitutional amendment as passed for the voters to ratify-






You need to understand what Pricey Harrison was trying to accomplish-


Pricey Harrison is not an outdoorsman's friend.

Pricey Harrison is not the friend of sustainable commercial fisheries management.

Don't think for a second that Pricey isn't coming after trapping and dog hunting every time she and her PETA type friends get a chance.

...BUT, she'll defend killing 4:1 bycatch in the shrimp trawl fishery, and killing turtles and sturgeon in the large mesh gillnet fisheries because of her deep friendships in Beaufort and Downeast Carteret County with a few of the "movers and shakers" making a living promoting "heritage fisheries". 




Edited by Rick - 24 October 2018 at 6:15pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Get Bowed Up Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 October 2018 at 8:45pm
I think if it fails it weakens hunting and fishing advocates/groups position on many topics/issues. That's regardless of the real teeth it does or does not have.


Play it out, if fails you give a heck of a lot of ammo to anyone who wishes to threaten your current privilege, funding, access,and all topics related. "Clearly not important enough."

If all it is meant to do is get people out and vote, then well played.

That said, I respect everyone's vote.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thepiratedoc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 October 2018 at 8:02am
I voted against. These are issues that need laws, not constitutional amendments. The Republicans' desire to change the state constitution instead of legislating is a savvy populist ploy to get out the vote. Falls in line with their unconstitutional gerrymandered districts and hell-bent desire to keep political power at all costs. As GBU said above - well played. Dishonorable IMHO, but well played.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cnaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 October 2018 at 10:40am
Not a popular idea, I know, but voting for any of this staged crap is merely to voice one's approval of the system. My disapproval isn't allowed to be represented in voting, because of strong arm tactics by the players, and the barnacled asses who panel the walls of the state with ballyhoo for brains concepts about heritage, insisting it enables their larcenous graft by opening the doors to an industry which amply proves it can and will lock up, scrape and bludgeon the resource into oblivion, using threats, poaching and cooked books to back up the caper. I mean, really? Somebody thinks voting is the means by which the sociopathic wretches we installed will change our resource outlook? Lawsuits and procedurally shutting down the system with sunlight and outing the bad actors in the GA, with an abandonment of going along and getting along, with overarching public opinion as a working goal, as well, can change what's been going on. We don't have standing within the existing paradigm, and we are fools if we think this charade adds up to conservation. We must tar the bastards with the stink of theft and resource destruction they so richly warrant. And God forbid you place your trust in these people to look after your "rights".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote todobien Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 October 2018 at 1:35pm
Has Pricey changed her residency yet?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 November 2018 at 11:22am
For those interest- here is the Jerry Schill's latest take on this-

LATEST NEWS
NCFA’s Glenn Skinner and Jerry Schill attended a meeting on Wednesday that was held by the Department of Agriculture in Raleigh. The purpose was a discussion about hurricane relief for certain segments of the agricultural community. Glenn and Jerry had private discussions specifically about relief for commercial fishermen. They will be meeting soon with DEQ to discuss further.
 
The next meeting of the Joint Legislative Oversight Committee on Agriculture and Natural and Economic Resources is scheduled for November 13 th , with hurricane relief on the agenda.
 
The General Assembly meets on November 27 th .
ELECTION IS TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 6 th
PERSONAL NOTE FROM JERRY
There has been quite a bit of chatter on social media about the Hunting/Fishing amendment, one of six amendments on the ballot. Since NCFA’s Board meeting was rescheduled due to the storms, we have no “official” position on the amendment. For what it’s worth, this is my personal opinion:

NCFA was not consulted prior to the introduction of the hunting/fishing amendment. After reading it, I didn’t see anything that would hurt commercial fishermen so I was not alarmed. However, it was changed in the Senate so that anything deemed commercial, exact wording was “commercial activities”, would be excluded from the constitutional protections as per the amendment. In consultation with NCFA leadership and attorney Steve Weeks, we concluded that it meant that recreational fishing would be afforded the protection but not commercial fishing. Keep in mind that the wording only said “commercial activities” and not commercial fishing, meaning that ANYTHING commercial, including trapping, would be excluded from protection.

The measure passed the Senate so I worked to change it in the House. Representative George Cleveland prepared an amendment that would remove the words “commercial activities”, but before it was formally introduced, the Speaker called a recess and they had a private meeting to discuss. When they came back, it was agreed to remove those words so the amendment was not needed.

Social media is a horrible place to get your news. It’s rife with rumors and misinformation and sometimes outright lies. Some will believe what they want to believe and don’t want to be confused with the facts. There was only one person affiliated with commercial fishing in the General Assembly when this went down, and it was me. Disagree with the decision if you like, but please get your information from someone who was actually there in the trenches.

Again, NCFA has no official position.

As for me, I will vote FOR the hunting/fishing amendment.
If you would like to see the wording of the original document, what passed the Senate, and what eventually passed, let me know and I’ll send it to you.
Jerry

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote francoind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 November 2018 at 4:41pm
Does this amendment mean I can sue the people that have destroyed the good fishing in North Carolina?...….Or do they have the right to keep on killing the breeding stock? How about a constitutional amendment that put all trawl nets outside the break water and protects the nursery areas. Now that is something I could support.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote marker39 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 November 2018 at 7:16pm
Funny thing is there was a push many years ago to get a gill net ban on the ballot.

A famous poster here pooped all over it because of  his "mob rule" objection.

Haven't heard any objections over this crap.

Can you imagine an amendment that protects traditional commercial methods???

Hopefully I'll be retiring soon and I'll promise you I'll be moving a little south.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Get Bowed Up Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 November 2018 at 3:01pm
CCA?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cnaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 November 2018 at 6:19pm
That's a great idea, GBU! Use your native smarts to attack an organization that brings to light fishery excesses for the protection of their members' access to a portion of the fishery by means of conservation of those resources. As a side effect, the access of all the other citizens who are UNAWARE of the resource at all are conserved. I'm sure many more than just me on this board would deeply appreciate your efforts to do what you evidently believe is right for whatever the cause you espouse. I particularly would enjoy the monies funneled to the lawyers who will appreciate your largesse and commitment to intelligent discourse and conservation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 November 2018 at 7:13pm
Originally posted by cnaff cnaff wrote:

I'm sure many more than just me on this board would deeply appreciate your efforts to do what you evidently believe is right for whatever the cause you espouse.
 


I've asked what that "believe is right" and "cause" is before with the specific questions below.  Enquiring minds want to know...still waiting.

Originally posted by Rick Rick wrote:

Originally posted by Get Bowed Up Get Bowed Up wrote:

If you truly believe in something, you should be willing you put your name on it.

So...Billy, as a person who...is obviously interested in "fisheries issues" that doesn't mind sharing his opinion, I would be interested to know your detailed thoughts on-

1- Inshore shrimp trawling
2- The large mesh southern flounder gillnet fishery
3- Expanding pound net southern flounder fishery
4- Expanding water column leases north of Core Sound
5- Zero reported annual landings on close to 60% of all active SCFL/RSCFL
6- The CSMA Striped Bass Fishery
7- Allowing non-resident commercial fishermen to do in NC waters what they can't do in their home state

 




Edited by Rick - 05 November 2018 at 7:13pm
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