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True Effort of Trawling- A Snapshot in Time

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    Posted: 24 July 2018 at 11:52am
This will be an ongoing thread that I will update with additional information as I get time-

This morning, July 24, 2018, at 9:00am the screen shot below shows 23 fishing vessels (shrimp trawlers) actively or with recent activity within the past few hours in the Pamlico Sound.

All of these boats where running active AIS/MMSI Class B systems required on vessels 65-feet or greater in length.

There were certainly smaller vessels (less than 65-feet in length) not required to have a AIS/MMSI system that were also actively trawling the same waters.

The smallest of these 23 trawlers was 65-feet and the largest was 105-feet (which seems overly large and may be an error in the MMIS file).  All of these boats would be "four-bangers" pulling four nets for a combined headrope length of 220-feet per vessel. 


I will post an update later listing the individual 23 vessels.  The shot below shows the positions as of 9:00am-  The trawlers are beige icons.  Ferry boats are blue and green icons.



Below are two examples of info (recent track and vessel data)  that is available on one boat- the Bald Eagle II




Keep in mind that the NCDMF will measure Effort of these 23-vessels by TRIPs. One trip measured when the vessel leaves the dock and returns to the dock. 

Most of these large vessels leave the dock on Sunday morning, or afternoon, to be in position for the shotgun start at 5pm on Sunday and return to the dock on Friday before the temporary close of weekly shrimping at 5pm on Friday.  Most will be "at sea" for five days- one trip.

Let's look at true EFFORT-

...and that is giving the vessel a 12-hour day...which is very low.  Most of these vessels will trawl 15...18...to 20 hours per day.  True effort could be 30% to 66% more than my very conservative estimate.

Tracking a vessel for 24-hours will be part of the updated data to follow.

Below shows the track of the Bald Eagle 2 for almost a 18-hour period.  He hasn't rested yet?



Is true EFFORT for these vessels as few as 23 "TRIPS"...obviously not.

126,960 acres = 198 square miles which is the size of an area represented below- approximately a 10 x 20 mile rectangle.  

Not an inch of that bottom would be left "unplowed" in a weeks time...one week. 

The Pamlico Sound shrimp trawl season lasts for at least 15 to 20 weeks. 

The deeper waters of the Pamlico Sound will be swept clean of juvenile finfish, scattered oyster rocks, remaining SAV areas and leveled flat during that one summer/fall season.

 




Edited by Rick - 25 July 2018 at 2:09pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote willis1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 July 2018 at 2:38pm
This is a super clear and compelling analysis - very depressing too. Many thanks for doing this!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Redfisher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 July 2018 at 2:44pm

Folks at the DMF are too lazy or stupid to look at it that way.  It is depressing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TomM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 July 2018 at 2:49pm
That sadly paints a perfect picture;
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 July 2018 at 4:44pm
At 4:30 PM, Tuesday, July 24th the update shows a few more boats with active AIS/MMSI versus the 23-vessels at 9:30 this morning-

Overall view-



Three of these "new vessels" have joined the Little Hobo and Jonathan Ryan in close quarter maneuvering with the Cedar Island to Ocracoke Ferry Silver Lake off Cedar Island, which is a great example of why the US Coast Guard should be stringently enforcing compliance of AIS/MMSI use by these big ocean going trawlers that could sink a ferry in a collision.

Past history suggests that some of these vessels are actively managing their AIS/MMSI transmissions to prevent tracking...a huge liability for the Coast Guard (if not actively engaged in enforcement) and the owner of the vessel...think criminal and civil.  You can't hide it after the fact once people die in a ferry collision- there will be track history, or lack of it, for anyone to find.



At 4:30 PM, Tuesday, July 24th the update shows four additional boats-

The Birdie P-  Here's a video link of this boat from a while back 




The Micah Bell...one of the boats used in the Industry Bycatch Reduction Study-



The Hannah Jae



...and McKenzie






Edited by Rick - 24 July 2018 at 5:30pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chasintrout Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 July 2018 at 6:03pm
That’s a very small fraction of the total bottom of Pamlico Sound being trawled. So small that there’s no way the trawlers are the reason for the demise of the trout croaker etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 23Mako Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 July 2018 at 6:07pm
That video is amazing. Thousands of dead fish and crabs.

I have a feeling you'll be seeing more of these cut off with Rick's research. How do we let this crap go on? Why wouldn't the shrimpers like a shorter more condensed season when there are more and bigger shrimp? Wouldn't that lower their overhead significantly? I understand you wouldn't have as long a time to make money, but that is a risk you take in an industry such as this.

I think it's also ridiculous that none of the studies really go deep into finding other ways to catch shrimp. It's just the same bullballyhoo with BRDs, when the main culprit is the trawl itself. You can put lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig.

My apologies for hijacking the thread.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 July 2018 at 6:10pm
Here is a video of a 21-bottom plow and the rig it takes to pull it-



A 21-bottom plow will till approximately 32-feet of ground in one pass at an 18" width of cut per plow.

It would take SEVEN of these tractors side-by-side to "plow" the same amount of Pamlico Sound bottom that ONE of the trawlers pulling four nets "plow" in one pass.

This
equals SEVEN of these side by side-



"We're just plowing the bottom.  It's good for the Sound!"


Try putting 161 of those tractors on the Pamlico Sound bottom this morning to equal the twenty-three shrimp trawlers.



Edited by Rick - 24 July 2018 at 8:21pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 July 2018 at 6:12pm
Originally posted by chasintrout chasintrout wrote:

That’s a very small fraction of the total bottom of Pamlico Sound being trawled. So small that there’s no way the trawlers are the reason for the demise of the trout croaker etc.

Soon you'll see that if you post false or misleading statements, a single photo will refute your words 10,000-fold.

I'll try to get on that tonight.


Edited by Rick - 24 July 2018 at 6:21pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TomM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 July 2018 at 6:50pm
Including everything 1.5 million acres. Prime nursery I’m guessing 500K. Doable in less than 5 weeks😩
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote marker39 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 July 2018 at 7:10pm
Having once spent a year of my life on the wrong end of a 75 foot wooden carolina trawler, I can tell you that chasintrout is full of it.

The bycatch was horrendous.

And the amount didn't change much was we moved through NC, SC, GA and FLA.

Only the makeup.

And this was ocean only trawling!!

BW #2
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stump1187 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 July 2018 at 9:05pm
Originally posted by chasintrout chasintrout wrote:

That’s a very small fraction of the total bottom of Pamlico Sound being trawled. So small that there’s no way the trawlers are the reason for the demise of the trout croaker etc.

Someone get this guy a helmet....

Have you ever seen one picture of by-catch on one of these boats? You don't even need to see it with your own eyes like I have.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 July 2018 at 10:01pm
Let's use Global Fishing Watch to look at 2017 Effort in the Pamlico Sound.

Keep in mind that GFW uses an algorithm to track "fishing activity".   Each dot is a single plot in a fishing track, but the dots can be well spaced out.  You don't see a track line (Fishing Effort) until you click on a dot.  You'll see below.

The photos below ONLY represent effort by vessels >65-feet that were actively transmitting under federal rules for AIS/MMSI requirements-

May


May and June

May+June+July



May+June+July+August

May+June+July+Aug+Sept

May+June+July+Aug+Sept+Oct

June+July+Aug+Sept+Oct+Nov (May dropped)


November 2017 Only Effort

...and the boats had moved out of the Pamlico to the beach in December (Dec-17 and Jan-18)

Below is an example of a track if you click on one dot-

December and January (two months) for the Capt Ralph



Below is an example if you enter a date range and a vessel's MMSI #
You can see that in December and January that the Jonathan Ryan trawled off Cape Lookout and Cape Hatteras, headed to Hampton Roads for a refit and then went to the winter Northeast fluke and/or scallop fisheries.




Is there any doubt what has happened to our spot, croaker, weakfish (gray trout), blue crab, southern flounder, summer flounder, our deep water oyster rocks, our SAV beds....our coastal fishing economies...







Edited by Rick - 26 July 2018 at 4:34pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FLOUDERMN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 July 2018 at 7:24am
They all don't tow 220ft of headrope it takes tremendous power to pull 4 55ft nets and all those boats you see don't have that kind of power alot do but alot don't either.So your numbers are no where near correct.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chriselk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 July 2018 at 7:30am
Yes not all boats pull 220 feet of head rope, many are less than 65 feet long, and not requiring AIS.

So yes those numbers underestimate effort as opposed to overestimating effort, since only those vessels with AIS and have them turned on are measured.  

Edited by chriselk - 25 July 2018 at 7:32am
The above comments are my personal opinion and do not represent those of any organizations or agencies I may be a member of.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FLOUDERMN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 July 2018 at 7:32am
Originally posted by marker39 marker39 wrote:

Having once spent a year of my life on the wrong end of a 75 foot wooden carolina trawler, I can tell you that chasintrout is full of it.

The bycatch was horrendous.

And the amount didn't change much was we moved through NC, SC, GA and FLA.

Only the makeup.

And this was ocean only trawling!!

BW #2
And back then turtle shooters and fish excluders weren't being used!!right or wrong?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FLOUDERMN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 July 2018 at 7:35am
Originally posted by chriselk chriselk wrote:

Yes not all boats pull 220 feet of head rope, many are less than 65 feet long, and not requiring AIS.

So yes those numbers underestimate effort as opposed to overestimating effort, since only those vessels with AIS and have them turned on are measured.  
Chris there's 80ft steel trawlers that can't tow 4 55ft nets for lack of power so your anything over 65ft tows 4 55ft nets is falseWink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FLOUDERMN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 July 2018 at 7:41am
None of you boys math will work ya'll don't know each and every boats headrope length that shrimps our sounds therefore you can't come close,the average joe see ya'lls math and believe it just as some of ya'll believe it.PitifulWacko
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cwilli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 July 2018 at 8:15am
FM,
You are arguing about the minute details.
The magnitude of the data is overwhelming and sad.
Even if EVERY boat does NOT pull 4x55 or boats under 65ft are NOT represented in the data, it shows the intensity of effort as well as breath in a defined area. Even if the data presented is only 95 or 90% accurate, it is bringing light to the destruction of habitat occurring in our sounds. Year...after year...after year. Sure hate when technology provides data that cannot be disputed, since it's coming straight from the boat themselves.

Edited by cwilli - 25 July 2018 at 8:16am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 July 2018 at 8:17am
Floudermn... we may not know what each boat pulls in waters west of the inlets in NC. I grant you that, but we do know this.

In other east coast states they pull zero in most waters west of the inlets (demarcation line, to be specific) and in the Gulf states no more than 50 feet of head rope per boat

Why? But most of all to so many North Carolinians, why do NC waters have to bear such intense activity and juvenile finfish bycatch mortality when no other state allows it?

If you wish to call Pamlico Sound an inland sea as some bizarre justification then I will show you a bigger one called Chesapeake bay where shrimp live and no trawls are allowed.

Going back to when the late William Clark of Belhaven took aerial photos of trawls working in Pamlico sound to Rick's latest work we have known what is happening. The DMF has reported the carnage through studies time after time. Former director Louis Daniel publicly stated while at the reins that NC was not protecting all of her known nurseries.

So why does it continue? No one has tried to stop it at the MFC or legislative level.

With all this data no MFC has ever made a motion to stop trawling in the secondary nursery for gray trout in Pamlico sound.

No MFC has ever voted, win or lose, to put a season on Pamlico sound for trawling. It still doesn't have one nor a minimum size limit on shrimp.

We can blame the DMF, senior staff, or legislators from Raleigh, but until a MFC is a force for stopping this in NC it will go on.

Many current and former MFC members are friends of mine, but all have failed to use the commission on which they serve or served to clean it up. I am too old to worry about their feelings over this.   You guys, and gals, tolerated it or else you would have done something about it because no issue in NC fishery management has science crying for change more than this one issue.

Do something!

Edited by Ray Brown - 25 July 2018 at 8:21am
Shrimp trawling never stops in Pamlico Sound. It just pauses on the weekend so crabs can remove the dead and dying from the battlefield.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 July 2018 at 9:00am


Fishing Boats 'Going Dark' Raise Suspicion Of Illegal Catches, Report Says

A new report raises concerns that when fishing vessels "go dark" by switching off electronic tracking devices, in many cases they are doing so to mask the taking of illegal catches in protected marine parks and restricted national waters.

In the report released Monday by Oceana, an international conservation group, authors Lacey Malarky and Beth Lowell document incidents of fishing vessels that disappear from computer screens as they shut off collision-avoidance beacons near restricted areas, only to have them reappear days or weeks later back in legal fishing grounds.

"This practice of vessels going dark is really widespread on a global scale," Malarky tells NPR.

Malarky and Lowell used Global Fishing Watch, which aggregates automatic identification system, or AIS, signals to give an unprecedented view of global fishing activity. AIS signals can be viewed by the public through such websites as Vesselfinder.com.

Yet another system, known as Vessel Management System, or VMS, is not available to the public but is used by countries to monitor their fishing fleets. However, "some countries can't afford it — developing countries like those in West Africa," Malarky says. "So, a lot of developing countries rely on AIS to monitor their fishing fleet."

AIS has been around for about 20 years and is designed to give valuable information about a vessel — including its type and size, location, course and speed — to other vessels to help avoid collisions at sea. The International Maritime Organization requires all commercial vessels in international waters larger than 65 feet to have the system aboard.

Even so, when it comes to transmitting AIS, there are exceptions. Among them, AIS can be switched off at a captain's discretion for security reasons, such as when transiting an area where piracy is a concern. Loopholes such as these, Oceana says, can be exploited by unscrupulous fishing vessels to move in and out of no-take areas undetected.

Sifting through millions of incidents of vessels "going dark" — many presumably for legitimate reasons — the report details four cases that the authors believe are particularly suspicious:

-- The Panamanian-flagged Tiuna, a 223-foot purse seiner that failed to transmit an AIS signal for 15 days while operating near the Galapagos Marine Reserve — one of the largest and most diverse such protected areas in the world.

-- A 177-foot Australian longliner, Corinthian Bay, that disappeared from AIS repeatedly over a 15-month period as it operated the Heard Island and McDonald Islands Marine Reserve.

< ="enlargebtn">Enlarge this image

AIS tracks of Corinthian Bay. Oceana hide caption

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Oceana

AIS tracks of Corinthian Bay.

Oceana

-- Egaluze, a 170-foot Spanish purse seiner whose AIS signal disappeared intermittently over a seven-month period while operating in restricted national waters of at least five West African countries.

< ="enlargebtn">Enlarge this image

AIS track of Egaluze. Oceana hide caption

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Oceana

AIS track of Egaluze.

Oceana

-- The Spanish-flagged Releixo, a 120-foot trawler, whose AIS signal disappeared repeatedly over a six-month period near the maritime border of Senegal and Gambia.

< ="enlargebtn">Enlarge this image

AIS track of Releixo. Oceana hide caption

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Oceana

AIS track of Releixo.

Oceana

The European Commission and the Spanish government have opened investigations into the cases spotlighted by Oceana, Malarky tells NPR. "It's an unprecedented step for the EU in terms of AIS non-compliance."

"What they are going to do is cross-check" the blanks in the AIS picture against VMS "to see if maybe they were fishing where they weren't supposed to be."

She says these individual incidents only serve to draw attention to what Oceana believes is a much larger problem.

"We really wanted to highlight these cases of vessels in suspicious areas where they are turning off their AIS, like no-take marine protected areas where commercial fishing is prohibited [and in] developing countries' waters, where [those countries] may not have effective monitoring and control policies in place," she says.

The report's authors recommend that governments require vessels flying their flag be required to notify authorities when they turn off AIS, giving the reason.

Right now, Malarky says, "there's no public accountability" for suspicious behavior and that by requiring vessels to explain why they may have turned off AIS, authorities would be able to better monitor what is going on.

"When we find these instances in suspicious locations, we need to be able to cross-check and say, 'this vessel was concerned about this' and not doing anything illegal," she says.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kshivar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 July 2018 at 9:10am
Amen Ray! We had not heard from Chasin lately. I guess he was working up something ridiculous to say. And he did.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 July 2018 at 9:31am
Originally posted by FLOUDERMN FLOUDERMN wrote:

They all don't tow 220ft of headrope it takes tremendous power to pull 4 55ft nets and all those boats you see don't have that kind of power alot do but alot don't either.So your numbers are no where near correct.


Let me know which of these 29 boats that are actively running AIS/MMSI and trawling the Pamlico Sound within the last 24-hours don't have the power to pull four 55-foot nets... standing by...

Vessel ID Vessel Name Permit Mail Recipient Address City State Zip Code Effective Date Expiration Date MMSI# Length Feet  
604116 CAPT ALEX SPA WILLIAMS, LEE BLAND PO BOX 306 SWANQUARTER NC 27885-0306 6/1/2018 5/31/2019 367730490 79  
617732 JONATHAN RYAN SPA TRAWLER JONATHAN RYAN CO LLC PO BOX 3321 NEW BERN NC 28564-3321 9/28/2017 8/31/2018 367478370 75  
547960 LITTLE HOBO SPA LEWIS, MARK STEVEN 971 PIGOTT RD GLOUCESTER NC 28528-9368 4/11/2018 1/31/2019 367769820 69  
623905 CAPT JEFF SPA TRAWLERS GARLAND AND JEFF INC PO BOX 306 SWANQUARTER NC 27885-0306 8/7/2017 7/31/2018 366983090 69  
1121658 CAPTAIN DAMIEN SPA MISS MARILYN LOUISE INC 4061 STARRATT RD JACKSONVILLE FL 32226-1331 2/1/2018 1/31/2019 366838960 85  
1122566 LILLIE BELLE (Capt Carl) SPA G & C SCALLOP FISHERIES INC PO BOX 250 ORIENTAL NC 28571-0250 6/18/2018 12/31/2019 367120750 72  
634816 CAPT PHILLIPS SPA PHILLIPS, JAMES CLYDE PO BOX 891 SWANSBORO NC 28584-0891 2/9/2018 12/31/2018 367457370 66  
1040383 BRIDGOT DENISE SPA ESTHER JOY INC 48 WATER ST HAMPTON VA 23663-1718 2/5/2018 1/31/2019 367468260 78  
909599 MISS KAYDEN SPA MISS KAYDEN LLC 990 CALLISON RD ORIENTAL NC 28571-1300 10/1/2017 9/30/2018 367669840 75  
546654 CAPT NATHAN SPA WILLIAMS, LEE BLAND PO BOX 306 SWANQUARTER NC 27885-0306 6/1/2018 5/31/2019 367730460 79  
1038900 BALD EAGLE II SPA FISHERMANS WHARF FILET INC 48 WATER ST HAMPTON VA 23663-1718 1/5/2018 12/31/2018 366920560 79  
1091811 CHASITY BROOKE SPA CHASITY BROOKE LLC PO BOX 250 ORIENTAL NC 28571-0250 2/1/2018 1/31/2019 367705010 105  
571255 CAPT RALPH SPA ROANOKE FISH COMPANY INC 5897 US HIGHWAY 64 MANNS HARBOR NC 27953-9442 11/1/2017 10/31/2018 367143030 74  
689213 SHAWNA LUCILLE SPA TLG TRAWLERS INC 10871 GA HIGHWAY 99 DARIEN GA 31305-3435 5/24/2017 8/31/2018 368000070 66  
1026244 PACIFICS SPA DELORES OF WANCHESE INC 48 WATER ST HAMPTON VA 23663-1718 4/1/2018 3/31/2019 367020610 74  
1060577 LADY SAMAIRA SPA WILLIAMS, SAMMIE EUGENE 200 MAIN ST SWANQUARTER NC 27885-9700 6/26/2018 4/30/2019 367172110 79  
606639 PALMETTO PRIDE SPA REAVES, CAMERON LATEN 17 QUAIL RIDGE CIR N BEAUFORT SC 29906-9027 1/25/2018 12/31/2018 338230346 66  
917630 LADY KIMBERLY SPA PITTMAN, KENNETH RAY SR 314 ROYAL RD BEAUFORT NC 28516-6572 1/9/2018 7/31/2018 367435910 69  
1069510 MCKENZIE SPA TRAWLER NEW HOPE INC PO BOX 100 HOBUCKEN NC 28537-0100 8/1/2017 8/31/2018 366973860 77  
1029895 BIRDIE P SPA TRAWLER CAPT ALFRED INC PO BOX 100 HOBUCKEN NC 28537-0100 7/1/2018 6/30/2019 367107940 78  
1056576 MICAH BELL SPA CAPT GASTON LLC PO BOX 3321 NEW BERN NC 28564-3321 8/1/2017 7/31/2018 367521460 79  
615409 HANNAH JAE SPA WHITE, GEORGE EDWARD III 8 CRYSTAL ST SEABROOK SC 29940-3604 1/1/2018 12/31/2018 338199694 66  
615565 MISS KIRK SPA MISS KIRK INC 105 SWEETBRIAR RD WASHINGTON NC 27889-9229 4/1/2018 3/31/2019 367148930 78  
  Capt Lee                 7933725 74  
  Wanda Gail                 368004960 66  
  Lillie Jane                 368008560 66  
  Capt Vern                 367728060 66  
  Lady Madison                 367790550 95  
  Sheila Rene                 367095140 78  
                      75.2 Average


Edited by Rick - 25 July 2018 at 10:46am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 July 2018 at 9:52am
A few of the actual twenty-nine boats above that ranged in size from 66-feet to 105-feet with the average being 75-feet are shown below. 

Why does North Carolina allow what no other state on the Atlantic or Gulf coasts allow!

























Edited by Rick - 26 July 2018 at 6:14pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 July 2018 at 10:05am
7 of those 29 are boats that can not trawl inland waters of their home states who have an Atlantic coast.  On the Gulf side of Florida they can pull 50' inside.

That is nearly 25% of the known current working fleet in sovereign NC waters.   Interstate commerce rules allow boats to traverse from state to state, but don't guarantee them harvest access to the sovereign waters of any state.
Shrimp trawling never stops in Pamlico Sound. It just pauses on the weekend so crabs can remove the dead and dying from the battlefield.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 July 2018 at 10:34am
You can see the 2017 Effort above in the photos......

Below are the actual estuarine waters ONLY landings by vessel size (In-State and Out-of-State) for 2017-

It is blatantly obvious that the DMF's method of measuring EFFORT by "trips" and failure to document headrope length on trip tickets is vastly understating true effort.

Effort is strongly correlated with catch to the point you can use one to represent the other.

Most of the effort by far is in the bigger boats and that is not captured by counting trips at all.

Why has that happened? 

Why does NCDMF intentionally mislead the public, the legislature and other state and federal agencies and commissions with the story that shrimp trawl EFFORT is down 70%?


“Shrimp trawling effort is down. I don’t know by how much. We have to look at the trips. We have to look at the length of the trips. Number of trips are down 75%.  NCDMF August 2013 MFC Meeting

"...bycatch has gone down with a 70 percent reduction in effort."  NCDMF ASMFC Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission South Atlantic State/Federal Fisheries Manage Board, February- 2014


Effort appears to be rising based on landings data







Edited by Rick - 25 July 2018 at 1:48pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaitWaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 July 2018 at 11:15am
"The deeper waters of the Pamlico Sound will be swept clean of juvenile finfish, scattered oyster rocks, remaining SAV areas and leveled flat during that one summer/fall season."

But yet your extrapolations assume a pound of shrimp has the same weight and composition of bycatch/bykill at the beginning, middle and end of the season. Hardly expected if swept clean.

I asked a DMF employee who works with the shrimping industry if there was less bycatch at the end of the season or if multiple passes are made in the same area.  He said it is completely unpredictable.  Sometimes less, sometimes more.

And you need to adjust your extrapolations for when the nets are hauled back out of the water.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 July 2018 at 11:35am
Bernie- I couldn't get any takers, but I was giving $100 to $1 odds this post would pull you out of retirement.

Status quo....

Deflection.

Troll

Please don't anyone bite that hook.  Let's don't derail this thread by indulging Bernie's needs.

Thanks


Edited by Rick - 25 July 2018 at 12:23pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 July 2018 at 12:02pm
Bernie.....Pamlico sound is populated with spot, croaker, and gray trout all summer because each is a spawner in the ocean or in the case of gray trout they are batch spawners just inside, in, or just outside the inlets in warm months.  Pamlico Sound is populated by these three species by specimens born outside it for the most part, thus a constant flow of juveniles thanks to wind and tide all summer is a constant event.  The DMF has said this and reported this for years so seeing juvenile fish all summer proves their point.   The late Dr. Jonathan Miller form NCSU identified this in his many studies on lagoons and how they are populated by certain species from outside the lagoon itself.

It is also one of the reasons of the misconception that some spot never grow up because the old timers saw two finger spot in May and again in October.  That's because they are being born all summer and entering the sound all summer from the ocean.

I mean...how obvious is this when you find this on the web???
Life cycle: Atlantic croaker mature between ages 2 and 3 and spawn offshore over a protracted period which usually peaks in October. Eggs and newly-hatched larvae drift toward land, and later, as juvenile fish, swim into estuarine nursery areas where they remain until the next fall when they migrate into open waters.

NCDEQ - Croaker

portal.ncdenr.org/web/mf/croaker


So Rick is right and to an extent you are right.

The sound is being swept clean all summer of juvenile spot and croaker, but all those egg layers in the ocean keep replenishing all summer.  Can you imagine what would happen if only 10% of a summers mortality got to be adults?  Heck, it would be like old times in a short period of time.

In five years you would know because the life expectancy of spot and croaker is only about 5 years for spot and 8 years for croaker.  

If we stopped inland trawling right now then by 2025 we should have definitive answers on this once and for all unless you consider what Virginia says about stopping trawling in Chesapeake Bay back in the late '60's.   If you take their knowledge then we already know what would happen and we know why they no longer allow trawling in their waters for anything.

And BTW.....a former member of the MFC sent me a note and a link this morning after reading this thread....I got a kick out of it because I know it is true.

"Ray is correct about the power of the MFC, I did not know it either before, but I do know now!"



Edited by Ray Brown - 25 July 2018 at 12:17pm
Shrimp trawling never stops in Pamlico Sound. It just pauses on the weekend so crabs can remove the dead and dying from the battlefield.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 July 2018 at 12:40pm
for you numbers guys the tables below are interesting-

"all gears" include pots, castnets, channel nets, etc-


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