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CapRandy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CapRandy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 February 2018 at 1:25pm
I do not know whos in charge of all these stories and videos of poor commercial fishermen, I know they have their own agenda at hand and to hell with everyone but them.
Murder is killing but all killing is not murder
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TomM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 February 2018 at 1:30pm
spurious still looking for that supply BW
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 February 2018 at 1:54pm
Spurious?

You claim that asking for votes at the management table in proportion to the size of a stakeholder group is spurious? So what is asking for equal representation at the management table when your user group only makes up 2.5 ten thousandths of the public trust owners in the room and there is proven data showing your user group's actions have not only removed assets from the pool, but you also have a proven track record of destroying multiples of non targeted assets in pursuit of what you have permission to take?

Now....is that fair to all involved that those with that record, and in such a minority, get a vote that is a third larger than the largest stakeholder group? Only in the minds of those with something material to gain would that be fair.

I don't think I have to point out that the NCFA never mentions the condition of the resource when they defend their position. They never mention the condition of the public trust asset they draw from when they defend their position to take. I think Bernie, that this is your "lurking variable" when you say you can't correlate the numbers. Everyone stops and looks at the numbers on the surface in terms of 3, 3, and 2, but some of us look beyond that and therein is the "lurking variable" that those who take commerically never wish anyone just looking at numbers casually to see.

Their plight, as they tell it, is always because of someone else...the CCA, a MFC gone amuck, a legislature picking on poor working people, and now two governors back to back.

I think the politicians, including the last two governors, have finally realized that everyone else can't be to blame when it is you, that have your nets in the water while crying foul!



Edited by Ray Brown - 02 February 2018 at 2:03pm
Shrimp trawling never stops in Pamlico Sound. It just pauses on the weekend so crabs can remove the dead and dying from the battlefield.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bakesta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 February 2018 at 3:54pm
Originally posted by BaitWaster BaitWaster wrote:



Since the 2,500 are largely responsible for supplying the 8.5 million with access to the public resource, what's the problem?


And nothing could be more of an outright lie than that.   But hey - if you believe it and tell if often enough...........................................................................................................................................................................................................................it's still a lie.













"Do the right thing. It will gratify some people and astonish the rest." --- Mark Twain
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Glacierbaze Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 February 2018 at 4:33pm
"Since the 2,500 are largely responsible for supplying the 8.5 million with access to the public resource, what's the problem?"

Are you trying to give an illustration of spurious?  It is well established where the 8.5 million, and the other 300+ million get their seafood, and it is not from a market outside Boone, or a market in Charlotte.
It would be much more equitable for the 8.5 to have 3 votes to tell 2,500 with 2 votes, how to treat their resource.
Take your pick:

spurious

[spyoo r-ee-uh s]
adjective
1.
not genuine, authentic, or true; not from the claimed, pretended, or proper source; counterfeit.
2.
Biology. (of two or more parts, plants, etc.) having a similar appearance but a different structure.
3.
of illegitimate birth; bastard.


Edited by Glacierbaze - 02 February 2018 at 4:37pm
"You can never elevate your own character by stepping on someone else's."

"Never argue with a man who loves the sound of his own voice."
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CapRandy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CapRandy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 February 2018 at 9:07pm
Zzzzzz,wow it never will end
Murder is killing but all killing is not murder
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Glacierbaze View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Glacierbaze Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 February 2018 at 11:04pm
I have another idea for those who think that the 2500 are providing fresh local seafood for the rest of us 8.5 million Tar Heels.  Go on strike, and see if anyone notices.
"You can never elevate your own character by stepping on someone else's."

"Never argue with a man who loves the sound of his own voice."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kshivar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 February 2018 at 11:19pm
That is a great idea. They go on strike and wait for the people to beg them to stop. Hilarious. No more shrimp scampi.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 February 2018 at 9:46am
Originally posted by Ray Brown Ray Brown wrote:

But Jerry fails to mention, according to some Democratic members of the legislature, that within the last month Jerry was promising Governor Cooper that if he gave the commercials the science seat they would turn every down east legislative seat back to the Democrats meaning they would send Speciale, Steinberg, and the plastic bag lady of Dare County packing. The same folks who have stood by him for the last two years. In the end it appears the Governors staff felt that anyone who would turn on their friends like that could not be trusted.

Also, I'd like to question Jerry's definition of fairness. I agree totally that often being fair and being equal are two different things...

Yes Ray, very well said!

Jerry can invoke God, Country and Apple Pie into his talk, but his walk is self-serving to himself and the less than a handful of large players he represents.

Jerry Schill- Fair and equitable, hardly.  Honest...you be the judge.

The Commission's final Southern Flounder Supplement motion and vote went to great lengths to insure that the much needed 38% reduction would be fairly taken across all pound net fisheries through the use of regional quotas.

One only has to look at what the NCFA (Jerry Schill) tried to do during the Supplement lawsuit negotiations to understand that Jerry doesn't look after but a few.

The Northeastern NC commercial fisherman should be grateful to a fair minded Marine Fisheries Commission that wouldn't allow the NCFA to cut you out of the Southern flounder fishery.

The NCFA proposed during negotiations that in lieu of regional pound net quotas it would accept a seasonal closure to limit harvest as long as the closure came off the front end and not the back end. 

The Commission understood that flounder migration in the Albemarle Sound area occurs first.  Using a front end closure would have unfairly placed the reduction burden on that fishery and given an unfair advantage to the Pamlico and Northern Core Sound fisheries. 

Just as politicians in Raleigh understand that Jerry is willing to turn his back on his "friends", so did the MFC.  To a balanced MFC's credit, they were willing to give away more in the settlement than they should have because out of a sense of fairness they were not willing to take the NCFA's offer to unfairly place the burden of harvest reductions almost solely on the back of the Albemarle fisherman. 


  





Edited by Rick - 05 February 2018 at 10:49am
fiogf49gjkf0d
NC Fisheries Management- Motto: Too Little, Too Late, Too Bad   Slogan: Shrimp On! Mission Statement: Enable Commercial Fishing At Any and All Cost, Regardless of Impact to the Resource.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 February 2018 at 10:43am
One of the attorney's in those deliberations made that comment over and over...

"I could not believe how they would sell out other fishermen during those deliberations!"

Shrimp trawling never stops in Pamlico Sound. It just pauses on the weekend so crabs can remove the dead and dying from the battlefield.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrackishWater Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 February 2018 at 12:18pm
Jerry is telling legislators that we already have a Definition of a Commercial Fisherman, so any new debate is not necessary. I believe that definition goes something like the Dare County resolution stating, "one who harvests seafood and introduces it into the commerce of North Carolina". So, by his own definition, 60% of the license holders that do not report landings do not qualify to hold those licenses.  

End of discussion.
A rising tide lifts all boats...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 February 2018 at 1:09pm
Exactly....
Shrimp trawling never stops in Pamlico Sound. It just pauses on the weekend so crabs can remove the dead and dying from the battlefield.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jtoler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 February 2018 at 3:42pm
Making sure that commercial fishing has a solid definition with the end result being the take must be sold, will then define a commercial fisherman. If you take and don't sell, you are not in any way a commercial fisherman. Also, please stop the sale of commercial fishing licenses from individual to individual on such media as Craigslist. 
Jill
Fly Fishing, messing with my mind since 2007.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote themoose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 February 2018 at 5:48pm
Originally posted by jtoler jtoler wrote:

Also, please stop the sale of commercial fishing licenses from individual to individual on such media as Craigslist. 


Go one step further....

Stop all sales and assignment of licenses. Period.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cnaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 February 2018 at 10:59am
As I have been upbraided by BW, most recently as a know nothing who spouts nonsense online to receive spurious credit from people dumb enough to grant credence to my ranting, it is of academic delight when I take pleasure in seeing the excellent and incisive takedown, and breakdown of BW's pronouncement of Ray's supposed "spurious" take on public resource representation in N.C. by the various dependable dealers in logic who frequent this board. For such a high dudgeon dealer in so- called fairness, BW proves a consistent source of venom against those who express desire for change in our corrupt system, and those who would apply actual fairness to that system, and to the ignorant mass of the Hoi poloi with whom I am content to identify in this context. It would seem, though they are on the surface of two differing worlds, that in their core, BW, and Jerry are of the same cloth. That is, like the anabaptists who Jerry has revealed to have designs on the fish in his Pennsylvanian pond, that it is they who have been chosen by God, the intelligentsia of N.C. Politics, or whatever force recognizes such positions as theirs as the exclusive enlightened position. This acreditation from on high renders a rock hard shell upon their logic which not only turns my soft mattock of copper, but leaves in tatters the beautifully crafted diamond hard logic of Ray's entreaties to fairness and conservation, IN BW 's MIND. The uptake is that the exclusive access to real knowledge sets BW apart from those who would disagree, because they aren't recognized by God, et all, as purveyors of truth, certainly not in the fish world. This belief in exclusive illumination within a chosen fold contrasts with the prevailing idea among the heroes of fairness and logic who regularly post here, that positive change could result from the state taking a fairer approach to fish resource management and who readily agree that entities outside our physical baileywick ( North Carolina fisheries) have indeed proven true in their attempt to be fair to the at large constituencies and the resource (other state's fisheries). This dichotomy of philosophical approaches perhaps IS the lynchpin of our conflict on fish resources. As the clock ticks into the future, will our political fish world (in N.C.) begin to recognize the benefits to everyone in the state in conserving the resource, in a manner fair to science and biology, or will it continue to follow the anabaptist model BW and Jer exemplify, and sequester itself in that same rarified world of exclusive anointed understanding, that operates in an alternative sphere, to which we simple citizens can never be privy? This question is what keeps me interested to participate here, no matter how foolish I might seem, as it's the only venue in which I post online, because we seem to have a chance to chisel away the granitic wisdom of BW's exclusive view, and maybe one day get a flounder on the line.
V/H Dog
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