FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Public Meeting- S. Flounder Stock Assessment

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Rick View Drop Down
Pro
Pro


Joined: 16 July 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5281
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Public Meeting- S. Flounder Stock Assessment
    Posted: 05 December 2017 at 9:18am

After the last Southern Flounder stock assessment debacle, current DEQ management has obviously heard the message that the public has Zero Confidence in the Division to follow its Misison Statement and ensure a fair process that supports sustainable fisheries management.





If DEQ truly wants public confidence, provide complete transparency by opening up DAY 3 to the public.



Release: Immediate
Contact: Patricia Smith
Date: Dec. 4, 2017
Phone: 252-726-7021

Peer review workshop for regional
southern flounder stock assessment set

 


MOREHEAD CITY —
Staff with the N.C. Division of Marine Fisheries will hold a three-day, in-person workshop Dec. 12-14 with scientists who are peer reviewing a draft assessment of the southeast regional southern flounder stock.

The workshop will be held at the DoubleTree by Hilton Hotel New Bern Riverfront, 100 Middle St., New Bern.

The discussions begin at 10 a.m. on Dec. 12 and 9 a.m. on Dec. 13 and will be open to the public these two days. The open sessions allow the public to observe the peer review process, but do not include a public comment period.

The Dec. 14 discussions will be in a closed session to allow the peer reviewers to deliberate and complete a draft version of their peer review report, and for the stock assessment workgroup to address any outstanding tasks.

A stock assessment is a scientific analysis that uses information gathered from commercial and recreational fishermen and data from on-the-water scientific sampling and observations to determine the health of a fish population and predict how that population may respond to different management measures.

A peer review is an evaluation of scientific work by independent and unbiased experts. A peer review of a fisheries stock assessment evaluates the validity of the data used, the appropriateness of the assessment model used and the rationale of any assumptions used to determine if the science conducted is adequate for use in fisheries management. Peer review scientists have not been involved in or had input into the development of the stock assessment and have no stake in its outcome.

In the past, the division has not held in-person, public peer review workshops. This new peer review process is meant to improve the communication between the peer reviewers and division stock assessment scientists and to improve public understanding of fisheries stock assessments.



Edited by Rick - 05 December 2017 at 11:43am
fiogf49gjkf0d
NC Fisheries Management- Motto: Too Little, Too Late, Too Bad   Slogan: Shrimp On! Mission Statement: Enable Commercial Fishing At Any and All Cost, Regardless of Impact to the Resource.
Back to Top
Rick View Drop Down
Pro
Pro


Joined: 16 July 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5281
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 December 2017 at 12:38pm
Let's remember why we are currently using a stock assessment from 2009 as the basis of management, management based on data that is more than ten years old.

I do take exception to this statement (and a few others) below-
Most importantly, each reviewer noted the recent evidence for stock mixing throughout the South Atlantic and unknown movement rates.
recent evidence....the fact of stock mixing was not "recent".  That knowledge was at least twenty years old and had been addressed in every stock assessment and FMP since 2001.

The well-known fact of stock mixing, a fact that had not been a problem for past acceptance of stock assessments, was used in 2015 to DELAY action.  This action was political, had little foundation in science and zero foundation in sustainable management.

Fisheries management in NC- a political science.

 

MEMORANDUM

 

TO:                  Marine Fisheries Commission

FROM:            Dr. Louis Daniel

                        Division of Marine Fisheries, NCDENR

DATE:            Jan. 22, 2015

SUBJECT:      2014 Southern Flounder Stock Assessment

 

The 2014 southern flounder stock assessment was developed after a thorough review of available data and current southern flounder research as well as careful deliberation by the division’s Southern Flounder Plan Development Team. The stock assessment represented the best science and data available for the N.C. stock, while maintaining continuity with earlier assessments of that stock. For consistency with the previous southern flounder stock assessment, the same statistical catch-at-age model was used; however, a more robust program capable of handling a wider range of data sources was selected. Several updates to the assessment data were also incorporated, based on new southern flounder research related to reproductive ecology, and data (genetic, otolith morphology, and tagging information) that show significant mixing throughout the South Atlantic population that likely occurs during spawning and recruitment. Available modelling approaches could account for stock mixing during recruitment, but no satisfactory approach was found to account for adult mixing during spawning, as adult movement rates are unknown.

Division stock assessments are reviewed by a panel of three independent reviewers. These reviewers are each experts in stock assessment or the biology of the species in question, and the peer review process assures that data and methodologies used to assess N.C. stocks represent the best possible science and information. Three experts reviewed the 2014 southern flounder stock assessment: Drs. Steve Midway (assistant professor, Coastal Carolina University), Erik Williams (chief, Sustainable Fisheries Branch, National Marine Fisheries Service, Beaufort), and Genny Nessl*ge (senior stock assessment scientist, Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission). Dr. Midway accepted the assessment for management based on the treatment of the species’ biology; however, he noted that he was unable to evaluate the stock assessment model itself because he is not a stock assessment scientist. Reviewers indicated that all appropriate data sources were considered and that the model selection was appropriate for the available data; however, Drs. Williams and Nessl*ge noted that the biology of the species and available data did not permit the use of traditional stock assessment models for determining stock status of southern flounder in N.C. waters. Most importantly, each reviewer noted the recent evidence for stock mixing throughout the South Atlantic and unknown movement rates. The use of traditional stock assessment models requires that all losses from the stock be accounted for, but migration rates to and from N.C. waters have not been quantified; furthermore, the fraction of N.C. recruits originating from South Carolina, Georgia, or Florida waters is unknown. These concerns cannot be addressed with a stock assessment that only includes southern flounder in N.C. waters and would require a regional assessment approach. Another significant problem noted by Drs. Williams and Nessl*ge was that fishery-independent indices of abundance showed no trend over the time period assessed, 1991–2013, and some indices appeared to show conflicting patterns. Since traditional stock assessment models rely on fishery-independent indices of abundance to track population status over time, conflicting survey information and low data contrast made it difficult to accurately fit a traditional model. Therefore; the 2014 southern flounder stock assessment was not accepted for management by the division due to legitimate and substantial concerns raised by the peer reviewers, concerns with which the division agrees.

The original Southern Flounder Fishery Management Plan was adopted in 2005 to end overfishing and rebuild the stock.  The purpose of the 2014 stock assessment was to determine if those goals had been met in the set time frame.  The fact that the stock assessment was not accepted for management provides no answer as to whether those 2005 goals were appropriate or met.  Consequently, in the absence of a quantified estimate of the overfished and overfishing condition, N.C. Division of Marine Fisheries Management Policy 2014-1, “Rebuilding Schedules, implementing G.S. 113-182.1 (b)5) and (b)(6)” does not apply. This policy addresses the statutory requirements to set a time period to end overfishing within two years and to set a time period to rebuild the stock within 10 years from the time a fishery management plan is adopted.

While the current southern flounder stock assessment model cannot be used for management and timelines cannot apply, much information exists to manage southern flounder in North Carolina, and some of that information is troublesome. Of particular concern is the combination of large numbers of immature fish in the catch and evidence of declining recruitment since the 1990s that may result in the need for further management measures.

Given the importance of the southern flounder fishery, alternate approaches will be developed in lieu of a traditional stock assessment. The division’s Southern Flounder Plan Development Team is currently developing an analysis of trends in fishery performance, abundance, and stock productivity. The trend analysis will employ the Traffic Light approach, used in the current Blue Crab Fishery Management Plan, to provide guidance for management of southern flounder in N.C. waters.






Edited by Rick - 06 December 2017 at 10:49am
fiogf49gjkf0d
NC Fisheries Management- Motto: Too Little, Too Late, Too Bad   Slogan: Shrimp On! Mission Statement: Enable Commercial Fishing At Any and All Cost, Regardless of Impact to the Resource.
Back to Top
themoose View Drop Down
Pro
Pro


Joined: 15 October 2014
Location: Forsyth County
Status: Offline
Points: 842
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote themoose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 December 2017 at 12:58pm
I just found the day three agenda:

9:00-10:00 - NCFA and certain coastal legislators will tell the scientist and peer reviewers what their reviews will say
10:00 - 11:00 - NC Catch will review the grant monies available for those reviewers who follow the instructions
11:00-12 Reviewers find weasel words to preserve the status quo
12-2:00 - Lunch provided by NCFA


(Obviously, this is a parody)
Back to Top
Glacierbaze View Drop Down
Pro
Pro


Joined: 09 January 2005
Location: North Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 3733
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Glacierbaze Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 December 2017 at 1:15pm
Have the scientists doing the peer review been made public? 
"You can never elevate your own character by stepping on someone else's."

"Never argue with a man who loves the sound of his own voice."
Back to Top
Ray Brown View Drop Down
Pro
Pro
Avatar
NCW FOUNDER

Joined: 14 July 2003
Location: North Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 14398
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 December 2017 at 1:41pm
Glacier....it wasn't that long ago that the DMF was asking that peer reviewers be anonymous because they were being inundated with calls after the fact admonishing them for what they said.

The thought was that this would take away any attempt to intimidate them by public scrutiny.

Now it seems the room can be full of individuals whose presence alone can intimidate especially if the scientists involved have ever, or will ever need someone at the DMF to approve a grant for them.

And why New Bern? Are all things fishery tied to New Bern, the home now of the largest domestic commercial fishery group in NC?

Edited by Ray Brown - 05 December 2017 at 1:42pm
Some trawl operator will be forced to change in order to reduce bycatch. If you worry about that more than stopping the bycatch then the resource is secondary to you. Recovery has one less advocate.
Back to Top
Glacierbaze View Drop Down
Pro
Pro


Joined: 09 January 2005
Location: North Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 3733
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Glacierbaze Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 December 2017 at 2:02pm
I can see why they might be kept anonymous until the process actually began, because they would be subject to all kinds of pressure and influence beforehand.  I am afraid that we are living in a world where those controlling our fisheries might think that 'peer review' means review by their own peers, and not by a committee who is equally, or more qualified, than those doing the actual research.  The validity of the whole scientific process is being degraded by such practices as the excluder experiments being done by the very industry they will affect, with highly questionably scientific oversight.
"You can never elevate your own character by stepping on someone else's."

"Never argue with a man who loves the sound of his own voice."
Back to Top
todobien View Drop Down
Pro
Pro


Joined: 26 January 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 4002
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote todobien Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 December 2017 at 3:01pm
Eventually New Bern will be the home to the lobbying association for the aquatic confined animal operators which may displace the independent working waterman.
Back to Top
Rick View Drop Down
Pro
Pro


Joined: 16 July 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5281
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 December 2017 at 3:16pm
Actually, the NCFA has moved to Morehead.  Glenn Skinner is Newport based and Aundrea O'Neal works for both NCFA and Beaufort Inlet Seafood (Brent Fulcher)...one in the same until Cooke got involved.

101 N. 5th Street
Morehead City, NC 28557

fiogf49gjkf0d
NC Fisheries Management- Motto: Too Little, Too Late, Too Bad   Slogan: Shrimp On! Mission Statement: Enable Commercial Fishing At Any and All Cost, Regardless of Impact to the Resource.
Back to Top
todobien View Drop Down
Pro
Pro


Joined: 26 January 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 4002
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote todobien Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 December 2017 at 3:56pm
Not the same now?
Back to Top
Rick View Drop Down
Pro
Pro


Joined: 16 July 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5281
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 December 2017 at 4:03pm
Who knows-  I'm sure Cooke will carry a little weight with NCFA (seems to already own Jerry) whereas Fulcher seemed to be driving the unsustainable trawl boat dominance over all other fisheries at NCFA.

With the deep pockets of Cooke, I'm sure other NC acquisitions are being eyed...who knows who gets bought next.

There's big money in getting big and the little guy is going-

http://www.undercurrentnews.com/2015/08/06/fulcher-family-owned-processor-may-be-beneficial-in-future/

Fulcher family-owned processor ‘may be beneficial’ in future

By Neil Ramsden

Greg Fulcher hit US scallop sector headlines recently by paying $7 million to secure the fishing vessel Alaska, complete with permit, from New Bedford, Massachusetts-based Oceans Fleet Fisheries.

However, he is far from the only Fulcher in the seafood business. Three siblings and an uncle all own scallops boats, while his sister is manager of Bay City Crab, in North Carolina.

Chris Fulcher, Greg's uncle, owns five full-time scallop boats, while his brother Brent has three full-time vessels, and five scallopers: a single one-dredge full-time, and four part-timers.

Another brother, Heath, owns one full-time scalloper, and a third brother, Jeff, has a one-dredge full-time scalloper.

At present Greg Fulcher – who has brought his vessel ownership to five with the addition of the huge Alaska – sells the scallops he catches wholesale, though he is open to the idea of becoming vertically integrated.

“It may well become beneficial to vertically integrate, and bring in processing at some time,” he told Undercurrent News. “My family used to be in it, 15 years ago. But there's no immediate plans to go into processing; despite being approached a few times in the past year. The one thing processors want is guaranteed access to raw material.”

The Fulcher family does not work closely together – certainly their companies are financially separate, said Greg, though sometimes they will co-operate to help each other out.

“In the future, depending on consolidation in the sector and what happens with permits on boats, it might be beneficial to go into processing, with all of us owning one plant, with our raw materials going into it,” he suggested.

As previously reported, Fulcher believes changes are coming to the US scallop sector, which will allow a company to stack more than one permits on a vessel.

This would allow a large, well-maintained or newer vessel (like the Alaska) to carry two permits, or perhaps more, and fish much more efficiently.

There was a proposal to allow permit stacking (of two permits per boat) several years ago, but that was narrowly voted down by the New England Fishery Management Council, Dvora Hart with the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration told Undercurrent.

Meanwhile, a full individual transferable quota (ITQ) program would be harder to implement, she said. “To begin with, the current fisheries law requires a two-thirds approval of the permit holders to implement a new ITQ program.”

“The fleet owners that own multiple vessels generally support ITQs (or permit stacking), but many of the single vessel owners do not. It would be hard to envision a two thirds majority for ITQs in the foreseeable future.”




Edited by Rick - 05 December 2017 at 5:43pm
fiogf49gjkf0d
NC Fisheries Management- Motto: Too Little, Too Late, Too Bad   Slogan: Shrimp On! Mission Statement: Enable Commercial Fishing At Any and All Cost, Regardless of Impact to the Resource.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 10.11
Copyright ©2001-2012 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.125 seconds.