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Who is stealing recreational license money?

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    Posted: 30 June 2017 at 4:54pm
The answer may surprise you. The reasons will tick you off, but if you can get WRAL out of Raleigh then start watching for promos as early as Sunday and the story by the six o'clock news on Thursday. Could it really be in the millions? Only in NC.

Some trawl operator will be forced to change in order to reduce bycatch. If you worry about that more than stopping the bycatch then the resource is secondary to you. Recovery has one less advocate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 July 2017 at 3:20pm
The promos have begun.



Recs unknowingly funding those who oppose them?

Edited by Ray Brown - 05 July 2017 at 3:21pm
Some trawl operator will be forced to change in order to reduce bycatch. If you worry about that more than stopping the bycatch then the resource is secondary to you. Recovery has one less advocate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chriselk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 July 2017 at 6:27pm
Folks at the coast dont get WRAL.  Options?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ONEARMEDBANDIT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 July 2017 at 6:49pm
Originally posted by chriselk chriselk wrote:

Folks at the coast dont get WRAL. Ā Options?
Guess We have to wait 4 the Online video, or I **think** you can watch live via internet.. http://www.wral.com/

Edited by ONEARMEDBANDIT - 05 July 2017 at 6:50pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 July 2017 at 7:08pm
I'm pretty sure that by Friday there will be video links that can...and should be shared many times and many ways.

Some trawl operator will be forced to change in order to reduce bycatch. If you worry about that more than stopping the bycatch then the resource is secondary to you. Recovery has one less advocate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cnaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 July 2017 at 9:38am
Sounds like malfeasance, to the tune of .6 million dollars OR MORE. That doesn't surprise, yet it should drive the sentencing of whatever mob broker and team of enforcers who made this happen. Undoubtedly a mild-mannered scienops and his pilfering legion got her rolling and ol' Braxton and his team didn't see a problem with the proven technique to mulct us out of the money we provided the state in the understanding it was for a specific range of actions, whereby the criminally inclined at the DMF just figured it was there for them. Oh, I just realized that this could purely be Braxton feathering the nest over at CAMA, inasmuch as his stint at DMF is "temporary". I wonder why FWS is so reserved in its approach here? They have a law enforcement division, do they not?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 July 2017 at 6:20pm
WRAL investigation says several million dollars taken annually for operating expense of DMF to offset budget cuts by legislature. The biggest point was that the DMF handed out roughly 18 million in grants of which 4,5 million they granted to themselves. Braxton Davis denies they have done anything wrong, but federal government withholding matching funds because NC is not compliant.



Edited by Ray Brown - 06 July 2017 at 6:58pm
Some trawl operator will be forced to change in order to reduce bycatch. If you worry about that more than stopping the bycatch then the resource is secondary to you. Recovery has one less advocate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote marker39 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 July 2017 at 6:37pm
How could the DMF (Braxton Davis) take money from the REC fund without a paper trail?

I work with government agencies ( IT related ) and I know how anal they are about spending their money every year. But from what I can tell they have to at least document it.

Would love to see this video.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 July 2017 at 7:08pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bakesta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 July 2017 at 7:28pm
Well Done Scott Griffin, WRAL and Rep. Yarborough!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


ClapClapClap



Now DMF says the auditor says there are no problems.  Is that correct?  




"Do the right thing. It will gratify some people and astonish the rest." --- Mark Twain
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 July 2017 at 8:30pm
Has anyone seen auditor report?
Some trawl operator will be forced to change in order to reduce bycatch. If you worry about that more than stopping the bycatch then the resource is secondary to you. Recovery has one less advocate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TomM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 July 2017 at 8:52pm
No but nothing Amazes any morešŸ˜”
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kshivar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 July 2017 at 8:52pm
Depending on how the books r kept the trail might be hard to find unless it is a targeted audit. I would expect more to come. Breaking the law and hiding it. SNAFU
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote todobien Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 July 2017 at 9:38am
I main the Rep could get a copy or probaby public records request
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 July 2017 at 10:12am
I can tell you this.

There is an email, or a letter, I forgot which that went to WRAL where a DMF employee admits that they spent money for which they had no authority to do. So that is a non event now as far as proving things.

But here is the million dollar question for anglers and average folks in NC.

Who in Raleigh are you going to go to with this information and other information, science, data, etc. that shows the concerns are real that is going to do anything about it?   Who?

Who in leadership with the Republican Party cares enough to step up and do the right thing?

Will the Governor?

Somebody point out a single person (besides Billy Richardson or Rep Yarboro) that has constantly and steadfastly put the resource ahead of the political wishes of a few time after time.

The issue is no longer proving there are problems at the coast...the problem remains finding a person in charge who GAS. (Forgive my eastern NC colloquial phrase)
Some trawl operator will be forced to change in order to reduce bycatch. If you worry about that more than stopping the bycatch then the resource is secondary to you. Recovery has one less advocate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hghcpa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 July 2017 at 11:15am
Did all of this happen under Louis' watch??


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 July 2017 at 12:08pm
Yes....

However, there is tangible evidence that Louis wrote several people during his tenure asking for advice from people above him. Those communications indicate that he basically said he felt he didn't have the authority to spend the money this way but members of the legislature and some former governors told him that he was to do it without question.

And while I've certainly been critical of his actions in the past there is real evidence here that he faced a career ending decision if he didn't follow instructions.

It's all there from what I'm told and is yet but another reason the feds are withholding money until NC puts in writing that they intend to follow the law going forward.

I was not involved in this investigation nor have I been in contact with WRAL, but was made aware of the some of the steps and investigations along the way.

AS with many things in NC, our laws tend to be more debatable than absolute. Had Mt. Sinai been in NC there would have been 10,000 commandments rather than 10 because every one is written so the reader can define on their own.

Federal law for all those matching funds that we get from tackle sales says..."the money can only be used for items or issues that enhance recreational fishing."

Does a study on southern flounder on behalf of the gillnet fishery in NC meet that definition? While you are deciding, please note that your license funds paid for the study.

Does a person working at the Coastal Commission who reviews CAMA permit applications and then approves or rejects them doing a job that "enhances recreational fishing"?

While you answer that....be advised that your license fund is paying for two of them.

And it goes on!

Mad yet?

(PS....I fully expect NC to put the money back in the recreational license fund for future projects that "enhance recreational fishing", don't you?)

Edited by Ray Brown - 07 July 2017 at 12:16pm
Some trawl operator will be forced to change in order to reduce bycatch. If you worry about that more than stopping the bycatch then the resource is secondary to you. Recovery has one less advocate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hghcpa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 July 2017 at 3:32pm
To your PS. I say BS
Never happens
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Redfish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 July 2017 at 5:03pm
Originally posted by hghcpa hghcpa wrote:

To your PS. I say BS
Never happens

This^^^^^^.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote marker39 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 July 2017 at 5:13pm
Someone has been notably absent from this conversation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 23Mako Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 July 2017 at 6:39pm
For the life of me I cannot understand why Republicans who claims to be "fiscally conservative" can sit by and watch this crap go on. Roll it all under NC wildlife and have the decisions come out of Rawlee instead of MHC. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 July 2017 at 7:16pm
Originally posted by 23Mako 23Mako wrote:

For the life of me I cannot understand why Republicans who claims to be "fiscally conservative" can sit by and watch this crap go on. Roll it all under NC wildlife and have the decisions come out of Rawlee instead of MHC.Ā 


This!!!!

Edited by Rick - 07 July 2017 at 7:17pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TomM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 July 2017 at 8:16pm
Agree. Close the mothership in Morehead and give control to WRC. Take MFC meetings statewide so everyone has a voice and make them Saturday/ Sunday so working people can attend.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 July 2017 at 9:58am
In case you aren't following Citizen Science on Facebook, you need to see the most recent activity.   This is a huge deal and the state has been caught stealing funds from what was initially to have been a trust fund holding license funds for a specific reason.   If these folks were simple "lawyers" they would be disbarred and spend time in jail for misusing funds.

If the assertions are true, and investigators for both the feds and now the state appear to concur, recreational license money was taken for several years and used via an administrative ledger shift by the DMF to pay for mandated observers so that large mesh gillnetters could remain on the water and be exempted from total compliance with the Endangered Species Act. Commercial fishing license fees were eventually raised to cover those costs but until push came to shove, rec money may have paid the bill. Now are you mad?


License money abuse further explained!

Edited by Ray Brown - 12 July 2017 at 10:07am
Some trawl operator will be forced to change in order to reduce bycatch. If you worry about that more than stopping the bycatch then the resource is secondary to you. Recovery has one less advocate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TomM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 July 2017 at 5:36pm
There goes my blood pressure- again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Ray Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 July 2017 at 9:45am
And expect to see information coming out in the next few days that the money all the commercial fishermen were forced to pay for the benefit of the gillnetters has not been used as initially agreed to also.

Certain members of the legislature strong arming both DEQ and the DMF are evidently equal opportunity misusers. I'm told it is not nice to call folks out by name so I'll avoid doing that to be as honest as they are behind closed doors in spite of my weaknesses in spelling when spell check is turned off. Some know who they are; heck, we all know who they are. Friends at dawn and foes in the dark. You couldn't cook up a better speciale, or hire a tillman to plow a field within a homonymn of Roswell, NM to do a better job than they have done in NC. Some could even be accused of being kin to me, or if not me, a mispronunciation of old Mel Tillis' last name.   Yes, we all want fish, but all we get are moore bergers! And if that rings a bell, well; if the clapper fits!



Edited by Ray Brown - 13 July 2017 at 10:00am
Some trawl operator will be forced to change in order to reduce bycatch. If you worry about that more than stopping the bycatch then the resource is secondary to you. Recovery has one less advocate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FishCommander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 July 2017 at 2:52pm
Ray ..... this might have a better ending than I ever thought ....... we'll see. Ouch Thumbs Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote todobien Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 July 2017 at 4:41pm
We going to see this on WRAL too?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cnaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2017 at 9:46am
Nice work NOT naming these legislative criminal-buffoons with whom we become more familiar in spirit if not in SPECIFICITY, Ray. Trouble is, we aren't limited to parliamentary rules or jargon. How in heck are YOU limited to it? We gain nothing by toeing their line, we should be hoeing it under. I would be first to second an effective approach to worming the GA, but it surely may require a veterinarian, delivering the medicine right up in there, the way a large animal specialist guides the arm into the nether alimentary in order to provide tactile diagnosis over in the reproductive, ova producing system, feeling the structure through tissue layers. Those tissue layers may occlude the public's right to know and understand, but the doctor doesn't don boxing gloves when the plastic surgical glove is indicated. Of course, the unnamed state employees who commit these crimes in cahoots with legislators and administrative types should get the lie as well, but that is the one parliamentary rule Chuck places upon the forum. Why would we further restrict ourselves from uttering the truth out of deference to "principles"applied as weapons against us. With a proper bovine examination, many times a great pressure-relieving rush of effluvia, gaseous and foecal, comes bursting forth as the learned hand (the appendage, not the judge) is withdrawn, and the truth can be considered in daylight, with only the wisdom of the Doctor taking relevancy, as he has the floor. The doctor who brings us the stinking truth here in fisheries NC should, as well, not hold back in the telling, for he/she has taken the stains of the diagnostic work in vain if the rancher pays him for knowledge, but receives legislative propriety instead, which only serves to protect the diseased mass in question.     I do appreciate the poetry you used in your post, but I hope you get my point that we have no obligation to protect these people from the scrutiny they beg us to bring to bear upon them, neither symbolically, nor in the procedural sense. They have proven to be the diseased mass itself.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2017 at 10:30am
Todobien...  I have no idea about WRAL, but I do know, based on phone calls that reporters in the east have had their curiosity raised regarding this and other issues so you might start seeing prying articles from papers and other tv stations in ways and from perspectives we in the east have never seen before.


Some trawl operator will be forced to change in order to reduce bycatch. If you worry about that more than stopping the bycatch then the resource is secondary to you. Recovery has one less advocate.
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