FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Persona non Grata

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Rick View Drop Down
Pro
Pro


Joined: 16 July 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5198
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Persona non Grata
    Posted: 18 May 2017 at 12:40pm
For those listening to the end of the MFC meeting on Thursday, May 19 2017, you heard my name mentioned by Commissioner Laughridge with a motion made that Mike Wicker facilitate a meeting between myself, Commissioner Wicker and senior Division staff to discuss weakfish nursery area work that I have previously provided under public comment to the Division and the Commission.

For those not familiar with that work, this is it-    https://1drv.ms/p/s!ArHvxdSx-xlqggCT_gwDP-zDDEUt

Chairman Corbett took animated exception to the proposal, flatly stating that he would not allow any motion related to me because I had disrespected him on this website.  Corbett explained that he had pulled data from the Division to present on a radio talk show and that I had falsely disputed that data, therefore how could any of my data analysis be trusted.

Here's my post-   http://www.ncwaterman.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=80147&title=whqr-online-interview-on-hb867

Please listen to the audio in the link above, review my comments and decide if I presented the facts falsely. 

My intended message in the post above is simple.  Sammy can't have it both ways.  Gillnets cannot be the most selective gear that exists (implying low levels of bycatch) and at the same time suddenly have a simple size limit rule (intended to protect juvenile spot and croaker) create hundreds of millions of dead juvenile spot and croaker regulatory discards in the sea mullet gillnet fishery.  If that is the case, then those fish are obviously dying now in that fishery, they just are not classified as regulatory discards.  They're probably going into a wax box as bait for Sammy's crab pots.  

There is no doubt that Sammy spun the number of commercial fishermen to make his point.  The division has long taken the stance that anyone who holds a license is a commercial fisherman, which is supported by state statute.  Sammy is well aware of statute.  I personally sat in a meeting chaired by Corbett last fall and gave 45-minutes of public testimony on the subject of defining a commercial fisherman.  G.S. 113-168.2 was discussed.


G.S. § 113-168.2 (h) Identification as Commercial Fisherman.– The receipt of a current and valid SCFL or shellfish license issued by the Division shall serve as proper identification of the licensee as a commercial fisherman.

Clearly, by statute, the number of commercial fishermen is not the "2,500 to 2,800" claimed by Corbett but over 7,000.


(Note: Individuals can hold more than one SCFL license, so the actual number of individual licensees is less than the number of licenses, but not in a magnitude to support Corbett's statements.)

Below are the number of SCFL and RSCFL licenses (excluding the 1,110 shellfish licenses) issued for 2016.



The 2,492 participants supports Corbett's statement that numbers are down in the "2,500 to 2,800" range, but that's not the whole story and Corbett is also well aware of that fact.

It has been well-documented on this site many times, there are active licensees that are not reporting landings.  An internal NCDMF 2015 study found that, at minimum, 28% of commercial licensees are actively fishing and not reporting any landings under the trip ticket program. Simple extrapolations on the SCFL and RSCFL data show that (at minimum) an additional 1,072 licenses had commercial fishing effort with no reported landings.  If we add that value back to he 2,636 active licenses and the 1,110 shellfish licenses, then the number of potential active licenses is 4,818.  It's obvious that Corbett significantly understated actual commercial participation while trying to make his point.  

Now let's look at the REAL facts and what's truly important.

Commissioner Laughridge tried to inject my study into public record at the Wilmington, February 2017 MFC meeting while discussing the NCWF Petition for Rule Making.  Laughridge was challenged by both Commissioners Corbett and Willis with Corbett disallowing Laughridge's attempt.

What are Commissioners Corbett and Willis afraid of?  The facts!

Weakfish is the Achilles Heel for the unsustainable shrimp trawl fishery.  Weakfish are severely depleted with no recovery in sight.  The ASMFC is responsible for management and one of the primary goals of the FMP is to identify and protect nursery areas.

Recently at the ASMFC there was an attempt to discuss my work and how it could be applied to the management goals of the FMP.  That attempt was squashed when ASMFC Habitat Committee member Jimmy Johnson (NCDEQ) and Michelle Duval (NCDMF Proxy) voiced their objections that the work has not been vetted. 

I'm offering to meet with division staff in Morehead City on their schedule for as many hours as necessary to "vet" my work.

If Sammy and the division are worried about my accuracy they should start on page 55 of my presentation where I vetted 27 years of the Division's data that they submitted to the ASMFC under the intrastate Weakfish FMP and found that 1997 had a 14% error rate.  I submitted the errors to the Division for correction, which they did and thanked me.

Below is a copy of the email that I received thanking me for my "eagle eye", making the following comment- 

"No doubt your careful checking will improve the quality of past data for future use."

Rick,

First of all thank you for checking over this data with your eagle eyes.  No doubt your careful checking will improve the quality of past data for future use.

I have investigated the errors you have found and here is what I have come up with. 

Samples 1, 17, and 20:  Sample 8704480 (ZF46) was mistakenly analyzed as a PSE station in 1987, it is in fact a PSW station.  The same station was towed in 2000 and 2013 and correctly analyzed as a PSW station.

Samples 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 2, 4, 6, 16, and 19:  the corrections you have on your spread sheet appear to be accurate.

Samples 3, 5, 7, 8, and 18:  These are a little more complicated. 

5 – Was labeled as station ZB25 when it is actually ZC39. 

3 – The documented coordinates for the station are 35.441667  -75.91667.  According to the 1988 report they towed at 35.3333 -75.9750.  

7 – The documented coordinates are 35.32500 -75.816667.  According to the 1990 report they towed at 35.3167 -75.7000.

8 – The documented coordinates are 35.441667 -75.86667.  According to the 1992 report they towed at 35.4500 -75.7500.

18 – The documented coordinates are 35.525000 -75.7333.  According to the 2005 report they towed at 35.3667 -75.7333.

In these samples it is difficult to determine where errors may have occurred (whether in recording station or lat/long) based on old data sheets and reports.  I think it is likely that tows were made in the wrong grid, or lat/longs were recorded incorrectly on the data sheets.  However, because the tows were made in the correct strata calculations for weakfish CPUE should be unchanged. 

I hope I have answered your questions.  If you have any other questions, or need additional information please do not hesitate to ask.   

Thanks

Dan Zapf

Below is an email confirming a mistake that I found in the Division's master data file-

Hi Rick,

The correct coordinates for ZF36 are 35.1833333 and -76.06666667.

The correct GRID ID for 35.191667 and -76.2333 is ZF36.  ZF36 is a PDW grid.

The mistake was in the our Format B (list of stations), however the correct coordinates for ZF46 were towed (1987, 2000, 2013) and it has been analyzed as a PSW grid.

Let me know if you need anything else or have other questions.

Thanks

Dan Zapf

So, if Chairman Corbett wants to talk about accuracy, I'd suggest that he brush up on his facts and rely a little less on his opinions and presentation of spin.  He should also brush up on Robert's Rules of Order.  Chairman Corbett should understand that he is a public official and I am a citizen exercising my right to criticize his actions and challenge the veracity of his public statements concerning fishery issues. 

Corbett's egregious behavior at the May 18th MFC meeting was not only inappropriate, but is just one more instance in a long list of Corbett treating the Commission as "his" and stating what "I" am going to allow and not going to allow. Corbett allows his personal financial stake in the commercial fishing industry to supplant his duty and responsibilities to the Citizens of NC in his role as Chairman of the Marine Fisheries Commission.

Another good example of Corbett's personal desires conflicting with his duty was at the May 18th meeting when a motion was made that the commission write a letter to the legislature and Governor supporting HB867.  Corbett moved the commission to discussions and statements of individuality versus responsibilities as a body governed by majority vote.  The motion ultimately passed, now let's review the letter that Corbett writes to see if the content reflects the majority vote or Corbett's personal interests.  

As a private citizen, I have spent hundreds of hours on the research linked above.  I have spent thousands of hours over the last twenty years becoming well informed on fisheries issues.  Open public involvement from concerned citizens should be encouraged, not suppressed by public officials or state employees.  Intimidation and defamation has no place in fisheries management where citizen stakeholders are not only encouraged to participate but given that opportunity based on state statute mandated within FRA-97.

As I understand it from reliable sources,
over the two day May-2017 MFC meeting, Chairman Corbett openly and personally attacked me in multiple conversations with division staff and the public outside of the official meeting.  He did the same the week before in a "stakeholder" meeting in Raleigh held by Rep. John Bell to discuss HB867.

If Corbett can't stand heat, maybe he should get out of the kitchen.  If Corbett is going to poison the well of credibility for the Division and Commission, the Governor should take action.  That action should be as severe as removal or as simple as not reappointing Corbett to the Commission.  Corbett's ongoing actions while conducting official business clearly show that he has no business being Chairman.





 





Edited by Rick - 24 May 2017 at 11:14am
fiogf49gjkf0d
NC Fisheries Management- Motto: Too Little, Too Late, Too Bad   Slogan: Shrimp On! Mission Statement: Enable Commercial Fishing At Any and All Cost, Regardless of Impact to the Resource.
Back to Top
bmac View Drop Down
Pro
Pro
Avatar

Joined: 02 November 2004
Location: North Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 2203
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bmac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2017 at 2:55pm
Sammy & Co: "YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!"
Back to Top
BaitWaster View Drop Down
Pro
Pro
Avatar
NCW PATRON

Joined: 15 July 2003
Location: North Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 13102
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaitWaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2017 at 3:05pm
I hate rude behavior in a man.  I just won't tolerate it.  Capt. Woodrow Call. 
Enjoy every sandwich - Warren Zevon

I'm not here for a long time, but I'm here for a good time.
Back to Top
cnaff View Drop Down
Pro
Pro


Joined: 22 October 2006
Location: North Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 844
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cnaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2017 at 9:48am
So truly, what we have here is the failure to communicate. Not at all is the message a failure, but the instruments we as North Carolinians put out to " hear" the message are as corrupt and rotten as we can muster, which is significant because the fisheries we revere have been recurringly squatted upon by these same people, and their friends in the legislature. I honestly think all the seemingly over the top invective they have elicited from myself and others here has been pretty much short of the mark, considering that at one time I thought morality and ethics were possible here. But it is proven over and over, like the dead fisheries themselves, that no idealistic vision for this state's fish resource is believable, reliable, or even possible. The state government itself insures that no decency comes of its administration, let alone equal treatment for citizens who carry no significant monetary payoff for the inbred slicks who ply their trade in Raleigh and along the coast, fully in the approving gaze of the governor and the hunchbacks on down. I must say, big basstard was always correct and on the money, as stridently tough to hear as his words once rang, they comprised a level of realism that we all skirt. I think the distillation would be that we must become system w-h-o-r-e-s and pursue this as an onslaught by our mob upon their brothel, where the beds don't come cheap. Wonder who in BWs world is so rude as to engender his hatred? Thanks Rick for your unassailable compilation and analysis of the reams of data you make useable in PROVING extreme malfeasance in this system run by puffery and buffoons. The pity is that someone of such obvious personal quality and reason, must waste so much time at loggerheads with, well logger headed dolts who rose up from the fecus purely to torment the decent world where logic would prevail except for the blood oath they took to destroy it.
V/H Dog
Back to Top
Redfisher View Drop Down
Pro
Pro


Joined: 09 May 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 381
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Redfisher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2017 at 10:29am
Originally posted by BaitWaster BaitWaster wrote:

I hate rude behavior in a man.  I just won't tolerate it.  Capt. Woodrow Call. 

As far as I'm concerned, the time for cordial behavior between those who care about the resource and those who pimp the status quo is over.
Back to Top
BaitWaster View Drop Down
Pro
Pro
Avatar
NCW PATRON

Joined: 15 July 2003
Location: North Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 13102
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaitWaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2017 at 12:22pm
How's that working out?
Enjoy every sandwich - Warren Zevon

I'm not here for a long time, but I'm here for a good time.
Back to Top
jtoler View Drop Down
Pro
Pro


Joined: 18 December 2005
Location: North Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 920
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jtoler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2017 at 2:12pm
Originally posted by BaitWaster BaitWaster wrote:

How's that working out?


Pretty damn good, for them.
Jill
Fly Fishing, messing with my mind since 2007.
Back to Top
Redfisher View Drop Down
Pro
Pro


Joined: 09 May 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 381
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Redfisher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2017 at 2:23pm
Originally posted by BaitWaster BaitWaster wrote:

How's that working out?

Not well.  About how you'd like it, eh?
Back to Top
Rick View Drop Down
Pro
Pro


Joined: 16 July 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5198
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2017 at 2:25pm
For those interested in watching on video the "selectivity" of Corbett's gillnets, click the following link and watch the segment from 11:03 to 12:44.

http://www.wral.com/wral-documentary-net-effect-/14929877/


fiogf49gjkf0d
NC Fisheries Management- Motto: Too Little, Too Late, Too Bad   Slogan: Shrimp On! Mission Statement: Enable Commercial Fishing At Any and All Cost, Regardless of Impact to the Resource.
Back to Top
Stump1187 View Drop Down
Pro
Pro


Joined: 24 April 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 821
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stump1187 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2017 at 3:04pm
Maybe BW needs the same courtesy that CCA members and Mr. Laughridge has been seeing. 
Back to Top
charles boykin View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group


Joined: 07 August 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 8
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote charles boykin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2017 at 3:12pm
WRAL?? Really? You don't think they have an agenda do you? They don't want anyone to use the resource. Bycatch is controlled by mesh size and where and when you set. I'm not a commercial fisherman but even I know that.

It sounds like you have an ax to grind with the shrimping and netting folks. I think that it is wrong to work so hard to try to put people out of business when they have done it all their lives and their family depends on it. Sensible regulation based on facts is what Corbett is talking about not videos from WRAL and fishing reports from folks who are not good at it and blame a bad catch on commercial fisherman.

Back to Top
Rick View Drop Down
Pro
Pro


Joined: 16 July 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5198
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2017 at 3:24pm
Originally posted by charles boykin charles boykin wrote:

WRAL?? Really? You don't think they have an agenda do you? They don't want anyone to use the resource. Bycatch is controlled by mesh size and where and when you set. I'm not a commercial fisherman but even I know that.

It sounds like you have an ax to grind with the shrimping and netting folks. I think that it is wrong to work so hard to try to put people out of business when they have done it all their lives and their family depends on it. Sensible regulation based on facts is what Corbett is talking about not videos from WRAL and fishing reports from folks who are not good at it and blame a bad catch on commercial fisherman.



Are you disputing what is in the video?  Please explain bycatch selectivity after viewing those nice large slot red drum caught in that "selective" net intended to catch striped mullet. 

As my good friend Allen Jernigan has stated many times- "If they can't tell the difference between a mullet push and a red drum push, they have no business netting."


fiogf49gjkf0d
NC Fisheries Management- Motto: Too Little, Too Late, Too Bad   Slogan: Shrimp On! Mission Statement: Enable Commercial Fishing At Any and All Cost, Regardless of Impact to the Resource.
Back to Top
Stump1187 View Drop Down
Pro
Pro


Joined: 24 April 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 821
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stump1187 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2017 at 4:46pm
Originally posted by charles boykin charles boykin wrote:

WRAL?? Really? You don't think they have an agenda do you? They don't want anyone to use the resource. Bycatch is controlled by mesh size and where and when you set. I'm not a commercial fisherman but even I know that.

It sounds like you have an ax to grind with the shrimping and netting folks. I think that it is wrong to work so hard to try to put people out of business when they have done it all their lives and their family depends on it. Sensible regulation based on facts is what Corbett is talking about not videos from WRAL and fishing reports from folks who are not good at it and blame a bad catch on commercial fisherman.


Sippin that coolaid this afternoon. 

It's kinda hard to spin the bullsnot to people who know better. 


Back to Top
hghcpa View Drop Down
Pro
Pro


Joined: 18 July 2003
Location: North Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 414
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hghcpa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2017 at 5:35am
If only fish were furry little cuddly creatures. This bs would have been resolved years ago
Back to Top
CapRandy View Drop Down
Pro
Pro
Avatar

Joined: 21 August 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 6475
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CapRandy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2017 at 8:57pm
As far as I'm concerned, the time for cordial behavior between those who care about the resource and those who pimp the status quo is over.

EXACTLY !!
Murder is killing but all killing is not murder
Back to Top
todobien View Drop Down
Pro
Pro


Joined: 26 January 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 3956
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote todobien Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2017 at 10:15am
Not sure what rules they operate under but thinking back to my FFA Parlimentary Procedure Days I thought under Robert's Rules of Order if a motion had been properly made and seconded a vote was to be held. Is the Chairman of the MFC awarded the privilege of being a Dictator through the current authorization of the MFC? Rather clear that he was serving his own interest vs the MFC's on this one. Wonder if he'll write the endorsement of the proposed Bill or if he'll just decide that it hurts his feelings too.

Back to Top
Ray Brown View Drop Down
Pro
Pro
Avatar
NCW FOUNDER

Joined: 14 July 2003
Location: North Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 14350
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2017 at 10:40am
If this type of activity keeps up we may see a lawsuit, or two, in this state over fishery issues but it'll be more of a public figure versus private citizen types of suits.

A member of the Marine Fisheries Commission is a public figure and thus very much subject to criticism and the law says: "In United States law, a public figure is a person such as a politician, celebrity, or business leader. In the context of defamation actions (libel and slander) as well as invasion of privacy, a public figure cannot base a lawsuit on incorrect harmful statements unless there is proof that the writer or publisher acted with actual malice (knowledge of falsity or reckless disregard for the truth).[1] The burden of proof in defamation actions is higher in the case of a public figure."

While folks like me are private citizens and anyone who criticizes unjustly or slanders me or individuals like Rick are subject to being sued justly.

As one of my attorney friends recently told me...."when a public figure attacks a private citizen for their actions rather than attacks their message, then in colloquial terms of a different court, it is a slam dunk as far as slander."

So folks need to watch what they are saying.    We all heard Rick being taken to task, but in the last forty eight hours I have been called to tell me that such an attack on my character and motives have been called into play by the same voice or voices as the case may be.

As private citizens we rarely get to defend ourselves as the public figure holds court or is in meetings where microphones are not present, but often other public figures who know nothing of the person being slandered other than their name are being influenced by such actions where the attacked is not present to defend themselves.

With so many hearing that discussion at the MFC meeting let's hope there is no missing minutes on the tape. I'm sure there won't be, but would be a lot of lather if there were.



Edited by Ray Brown - 22 May 2017 at 1:58pm
Some trawl operator will be forced to change in order to reduce bycatch. If you worry about that more than stopping the bycatch then the resource is secondary to you. Recovery has one less advocate.
Back to Top
BaitWaster View Drop Down
Pro
Pro
Avatar
NCW PATRON

Joined: 15 July 2003
Location: North Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 13102
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaitWaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2017 at 12:44pm
Originally posted by Redfisher Redfisher wrote:

Originally posted by BaitWaster BaitWaster wrote:

How's that working out?
Not well.  About how you'd like it, eh?

Not at all. 

Lack of civility and pejoratives and ad hominums in a public forum serves no purpose in my opinion.  As much as Marc Basnight aggravated me years ago, I always addressed him as Senator Basnight and tried to make my point w/o insulting him.

Seems like it's a free-fire zone here for those that disagree with the prevailing NCW opinion.  And unlike private conversation, comments in a public forum live on. 

Sure a public figure is fair game but also are uncivil posts on the WWW.
Enjoy every sandwich - Warren Zevon

I'm not here for a long time, but I'm here for a good time.
Back to Top
BaitWaster View Drop Down
Pro
Pro
Avatar
NCW PATRON

Joined: 15 July 2003
Location: North Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 13102
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaitWaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2017 at 12:46pm
Originally posted by Stump1187 Stump1187 wrote:

Maybe BW needs the same courtesy that CCA members and Mr. Laughridge has been seeing. 

Get it all the time here.
 
Enjoy every sandwich - Warren Zevon

I'm not here for a long time, but I'm here for a good time.
Back to Top
BaitWaster View Drop Down
Pro
Pro
Avatar
NCW PATRON

Joined: 15 July 2003
Location: North Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 13102
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaitWaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2017 at 12:49pm
Originally posted by todobien todobien wrote:

Not sure what rules they operate under but thinking back to my FFA Parlimentary Procedure Days I thought under Robert's Rules of Order if a motion had been properly made and seconded a vote was to be held.

Discussion after second and opportunity for amendments, etc.


Enjoy every sandwich - Warren Zevon

I'm not here for a long time, but I'm here for a good time.
Back to Top
todobien View Drop Down
Pro
Pro


Joined: 26 January 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 3956
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote todobien Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2017 at 1:51pm
Yep but in the end, unless it is withdrawn, does a vote have to be taken?
Back to Top
Stump1187 View Drop Down
Pro
Pro


Joined: 24 April 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 821
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stump1187 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2017 at 1:53pm
Originally posted by BaitWaster BaitWaster wrote:

Originally posted by Stump1187 Stump1187 wrote:

Maybe BW needs the same courtesy that CCA members and Mr. Laughridge has been seeing. 

Get it all the time here.
 

No, no you do not.

You have not had tires cut, windows broken, shots fired at houses, things missing, or the utter worry of you or your families welfare. At least not that I've ever seen or heard about. Maybe you do and you've never mentioned it.

Edit: and if you have, sorry that has happened. Nobody deserves it.


Edited by Stump1187 - 22 May 2017 at 1:56pm
Back to Top
todobien View Drop Down
Pro
Pro


Joined: 26 January 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 3956
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote todobien Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2017 at 2:37pm
I wonder if the Division staff will be looking at the data that Rick developed as they review the petition or if that is off limits due to him having offended Sammy and maybe others?
Back to Top
BaitWaster View Drop Down
Pro
Pro
Avatar
NCW PATRON

Joined: 15 July 2003
Location: North Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 13102
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaitWaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2017 at 3:01pm
Originally posted by Stump1187 Stump1187 wrote:


No, no you do not.

You have not had tires cut, windows broken, shots fired at houses, things missing, or the utter worry of you or your families welfare. At least not that I've ever seen or heard about. Maybe you do and you've never mentioned it.

Edit: and if you have, sorry that has happened. Nobody deserves it.

Perhaps because I treat everyone as I would like to be treated. Have good friends who are past presidents of CCA and are full-time commercial fishermen.

I didn't attend or listen to the latest MC meeting, but do have issues with the Chairman personally intervening in meetings tho that is their prerogative.  Just don't remember Johnson, Currin or Bizzel being this active. 

And I do think a motion made and seconded must be voted on unless withdrawn. Sure Chuck is more knowledgeable on Roberts Rules.
Enjoy every sandwich - Warren Zevon

I'm not here for a long time, but I'm here for a good time.
Back to Top
Rick View Drop Down
Pro
Pro


Joined: 16 July 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5198
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2017 at 3:34pm
Originally posted by todobien todobien wrote:

I wonder if the Division staff will be looking at the data that Rick developed as they review the petition or if that is off limits due to him having offended Sammy and maybe others?


Clarification and an important one:

I "developed" zero data.  All I did was take existing NCDMF data and analyze it using a simple method.  What I did is not new, in fact the NCDMF basically does the same thing every year for the important species found in both the June and September P195 surveys.

What I did that was different is that I combined all years versus looking at just a single year.  Twenty-seven years makes for an impressive plot and makes things very obvious.

...but you know, it probably wasn't different at all.  I'll keep looking and I'll probably find a NCDMF study that did pretty much what I did. The division analysis is conveniently hidden away unless you know what you're looking for and where to find it.

The division staff is well aware of the data.  They understand what I did.  I promise you that staff can visualize my analysis without ever seeing it and a probably get it just about perfect.

Plausible deniability, that's what it all boils down to.

  • The data is there.
  • Everyone understands the data.
  • It's obvious that we're trawling in weakfish nursery areas.
  • It's obvious that the ASMFC has set the following FMP goals
    1. Promote identification and conservation of habitat essential for the long term stability in the population of weakfish.
    2. Identify and delineate weakfish spawning habitat locations and environmental preferences to quantify spawning habitat.
    3. Compile data on larval and juvenile distribution from existing databases to obtain preliminary indications of spawning and nursery habitat location and extant.

I'm just trying to help them meet the goals of the Weakfish FMP.  Wink

The NCDMF doesn't want help.  Jimmy Johnson has been fighting proper nursery area  delineation for decades.  Forty-two years later, Connell Purvis is still declaring shrimp and the industrial shrimp trawling industry King, with many at the Division in agreement. 

Plausible deniability.

When does Connecticut, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Delaware, Rhode Island, Maryland, Virginia, South Carolina, Georgia and Florida start caring?

When does plausible deniability end at the ASMFC?





Edited by Rick - 22 May 2017 at 3:47pm
fiogf49gjkf0d
NC Fisheries Management- Motto: Too Little, Too Late, Too Bad   Slogan: Shrimp On! Mission Statement: Enable Commercial Fishing At Any and All Cost, Regardless of Impact to the Resource.
Back to Top
chriselk View Drop Down
Pro
Pro
Avatar

Joined: 22 November 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3295
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chriselk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2017 at 7:02pm
Why does a "civilian" have to "develop" DMF data?  Is their job only to they only generate data?  

Where are the Senior staff to take that data and to use it to develop policy?

Ostriches.


The above comments are my personal opinion and do not represent those of any organizations or agencies I may be a member of.
Back to Top
todobien View Drop Down
Pro
Pro


Joined: 26 January 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 3956
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote todobien Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2017 at 9:28am
It'll probably take finding a Prof to work with Rick to get his summary of DMF data published for it to even be considered. Until then some folks will just consider it the work of someone who stayed at the Holiday Inn Express the night before and do their best to keep other states, councils, commissions to consider it the same way.
Back to Top
Quickfix View Drop Down
Pro
Pro


Joined: 16 October 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 145
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Quickfix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2017 at 10:12am
Originally posted by todobien todobien wrote:

Yep but in the end, unless it is withdrawn, does a vote have to be taken?

no the original motion may end up never being voted on...just depends on the course of action taken by the participants after the original motion has been seconded...
Back to Top
todobien View Drop Down
Pro
Pro


Joined: 26 January 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 3956
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote todobien Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2017 at 10:57am
So in this case it was within the Chairman's rights to not allow a vote on the motion?
Back to Top
Rick View Drop Down
Pro
Pro


Joined: 16 July 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5198
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2017 at 11:38am
Originally posted by todobien todobien wrote:

So in this case it was within the Chairman's rights to not allow a vote on the motion?


I'd wait on the audio to hear the exchange.  I personally heard the exchange and wasn't sure that I remembered the motion being seconded or formally made for that matter.  I was told by two other people who were there, and listening, that there was a motion and a second.

After Sammy's objection and edict, I remember Chuck actually saying that it didn't have to be a motion, that it could just be a "suggestion" if Commissioner Wicker agreed.

Chuck could have pushed a point of order.  To Chuck's credit in trying to diffuse the contentious situation created by Sammy, Chuck did not.  If only the commercial side would act in as good of faith.

As Ray said above, hopefully the audio is not edited.  For those of us that pay attention, in the past we've all seen heavy editing of the actual "official" minutes. 






Edited by Rick - 24 May 2017 at 8:45am
fiogf49gjkf0d
NC Fisheries Management- Motto: Too Little, Too Late, Too Bad   Slogan: Shrimp On! Mission Statement: Enable Commercial Fishing At Any and All Cost, Regardless of Impact to the Resource.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 10.11
Copyright ©2001-2012 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.202 seconds.