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State settles southern flounder suit

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: State settles southern flounder suit
    Posted: 17 May 2017 at 4:21pm
The MFC has agreed to accept a negotiated agreement reached in mediation that in the end gives, according to DMF tables, a 14% reduction in commercial catch in spite of what commissioners have said. Recs took a 33% cut in landings by a recent proclamation.    Commercials land over 90% of the catch and had the lowest affect in this settlement by percentage of total.  This shows that taking the offensive and not sitting back with legal counsel that prefers to write papers rather than going to court wins!

Basically the 15 inch size limit for all stays in place and the larger mesh size for gillnets and larger escape panels on pound nets stays in place.  The commercial season will close for December while recs will not close.  Rec harvest remains at 4.

I'm hearing there were other things beyond science and data that forced the state to settle.   Hopefully that will be cleared in upcoming days.

I also want to know if the state had to pay the legal fees of the plaintiff.

It is a reduction so there are some things that are positive for the resource, but once again the industry was pro active and rewarded for being so.   A new amendment can begin immediately and the much anticipated new stock assessment may soon be out.






Edited by Ray Brown - 17 May 2017 at 5:16pm
Some trawl operator will be forced to change in order to reduce bycatch. If you worry about that more than stopping the bycatch then the resource is secondary to you. Recovery has one less advocate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote todobien Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2017 at 4:54pm
Under the current FRA it allows the NCFA to treat the commissioners like the fat guy in Deliverance with no hope of Bert Reynolds ending the pain. They get them in mediation in a friendly County and torture them into submission.   If Sammy was in the mediation room, I wonder if he sat back and ate popcorn and enjoyed the show or did he fight to support what the Commission had approved by majority. Him having voted against it originally probably tells how that played out.

SQUEALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrackishWater Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2017 at 9:43pm
I can only assume that the statement "This shows that taking the offensive and not sitting back with legal counsel that prefers to write papers rather than going to court wins!" is an indictment against CCA NC.

Look forward to hearing how CCA NC could have prevented this outcome.
A rising tide lifts all boats...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TomM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2017 at 9:55pm
I would presume this is not going to be won in ncleg Or governors office. That leaves the court. They file they win. Play nice and logically you lose in NC evert year. Not right but the truth. Can't keep going down the same road.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bakesta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2017 at 10:11pm
You have got to be kidding!

What a joke.


Overfished species that is in trouble and they basically cut nothing.


Comms seem to win just for trying.


And we very quietly lose.


Over and over again

Edited by bakesta - 17 May 2017 at 10:12pm
"Do the right thing. It will gratify some people and astonish the rest." --- Mark Twain
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mattrich21 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2017 at 10:36pm
How can the MFC change the supplement in a closed mediation room?

Is that legal?

Either they had the authority to pass the supplement or they did not. They can't modify what was passed in a statutory proceeding to settle a lawsuit. It seems to be an all or nothing deal.

Perhaps those with greater knowledge will chime in.

Edited by mattrich21 - 17 May 2017 at 10:36pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2017 at 11:18pm
Brackish, I believe the CCA is still the best voice for saltwater anglers in NC, but this situation is a teaching moment.

Look at what the NCFA did in this situation to, using your words, prevent what they deemed a bad situation! They didn't write a white paper and try to debate according to Hoyle. They were willing to stick their neck out in court and won. They did so because they were not afraid to lose.




Some trawl operator will be forced to change in order to reduce bycatch. If you worry about that more than stopping the bycatch then the resource is secondary to you. Recovery has one less advocate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chriselk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2017 at 7:21am
On what basis could a suit be won?

Under FRA '97, I am told that there are few legal actions that would result in a court win, since it specifies maximum sustainable yield (MSY) language. The FRA is the quintessential act summed up in Rays byline above.

"Some trawl operator will be forced to change in order to reduce bycatch. If you worry about that more than stopping the bycatch then the resource is secondary to you."

In the FRA, conservation is secondary to MSY.

If you don't like FRA '97, consider supporting conservation as described in HB 867.  HB 867 contains a paradigm shift from maximum sustainable yield (yea right, if that exists) to specify the primacy of conservation of the public trust resource.  Under HB 867, the MFC has cover; moreover, if the MFC does not put conservation first, their counsel should immediately inform them prior to rulemaking.  Barring that, winning legal cases are much more likely.  

Going to court before FRA '97 is modified is putting the cart before the horse.  That is why we have put our efforts into the legislation.

 

https://legiscan.com/NC/bill/H867/2017

The above comments are my personal opinion and do not represent those of any organizations or agencies I may be a member of.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2017 at 9:27am
Why are you guys getting your panties in a wad? My comments were to show the difference in results between a group that forces the hands of the system to act, win or lose, versus a passive approach. Which approach has set the agenda in environmental management in the last twenty years within NC? Groups that issue statenents to read and asks nicely or a group that demands to be taken care of, makes political threats, even if hollow, and sues occasionally, winning just enough to set the tone going forward. Be honest with yourself as you ask the question.

I do support HB 867, and have consistently said so. I promise you, I would tell you if I didn't.




Some trawl operator will be forced to change in order to reduce bycatch. If you worry about that more than stopping the bycatch then the resource is secondary to you. Recovery has one less advocate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kshivar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2017 at 10:04am
Comms win because they are organized and have effective lobbying. Their are many, many more of us with lots more resources but we (recs) spin about aimlessly with no cohesive plan or organization to bring us all together so that we can wield influence as a single voice. Unless somehow we can come together we might as well get shirts with our names on them and start bowling. NC inshore fishing RIP.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrackishWater Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2017 at 10:26am
So, CCA is accused of not having enough backbone to go on the offensive but when we do speak up to defend our actions it is because our panties are in a wad?

Sick and tired of hearing there is no organized effort supporting recreational fishermen and marine conservation. And I am writing this as I sit alone at the MFC meeting. CCA has been at this for 40 years. The organization is in place if anyone wants to get involved. Plenty of room for anyone that wants to join us. Plenty of room on the legal fund committee as well.

When I leave New Bern today I am heading back to Raleigh to fight for HB 867. Look forward to joining anyone that wants to visit their legislators to lobby for support. Or you can sit at home and continue to complain about why nothing ever changes.

www.ccanc.org/join
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bakesta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2017 at 11:08am
Originally posted by chriselk chriselk wrote:

On what basis could a suit be won?

Under FRA '97, I am told that there are few legal actions that would result in a court win, 



I must respectfully disagree.
"Do the right thing. It will gratify some people and astonish the rest." --- Mark Twain
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2017 at 12:06pm
David, we are all in this together and obvious frustrations abound.

But, and this goes for all of us, just because we don't see what the other is doing doesn't mean we aren't doing anything.

While you were in meetings yesterday I was contacting half a dozen or so members of the legislature. I made sure they knew I was not happy with their actions to the point of overtly working against them the next time around. I was doing this long before I found out at 11:42 am about the flounder settlement. The last member of the legislature I talked to was at 9:30 last night who called to apologize for what his peers had done. Apologies are fine, but actions speak louder is the message I left him with.

I was also talking with other "independent" advocates for the resource making sure a concerted effort was in play on several fronts.

We all support this bill, most support CCA, but we would be awful members if we didn't point out from time to time what we think would be a good change in tact.

If nothing changes, when the new Maxwell Center opens here next year that will accommodate 1,200 seated people for a meeting, I, and others, hope to show what a political type rally for the resource will look like, sound like, and reflect. Legislators will be invited to attend, but they will not be allowed to speak, they will be "encouraged" to listen during the meeting and the speakers we are lining up will leave no doubt about where the resource is in NC and the role that commercial and recreational fishermen can realistically have going forward if we have a viable and abundant stock of fish going forward.

The CCA will be invited to participate as will other groups, but we are going to awaken an old friends mantle if he'll let us.....for this will be a "A Saturday Gathering of Angry NC Fishermen!"

The liberal media will get a free plate of barbeque. :-)

Barbecue, friend chicken, and sweet tea will be available for consumption for the rest of us and will be the only thing folks will have to pay for.

It'll be an hour from most places and no more than 2.5 hours from Southport, Nags Head, or Greensboro and it won't be on a day where college football conflicts.     

It'll be a day where we make sure that fishermen understand they own a vote just as much as they own a fishing rod.

I encourage people to join the CCA, RFA, NCWF, or whomever they wish to carry their message, but mostly I encourage them to be heard as an individual voter and this is what this day will be about.

You are paid to sit alone, most of us hope a pay day of sorts is one day coming.   But that is another issue that really needs to be determined and written down.

What would the consensus be if we tried to define what a reformed NC would look like in terms of fishery management goals and rules? Right now, for every person involved, there is an individual definition. If it was clearly defined, including where all participants role would be, who is to say that the commercial fishermen would not see their role in a favorable light? Each of them think we offer all or nothing. That's far from the truth, but change for all of us would happen.

We are all hurrying off with no common destination in sight; and I think all agree that the resource suffers while we scurry.   Just food for thought.



Edited by Ray Brown - 18 May 2017 at 12:27pm
Some trawl operator will be forced to change in order to reduce bycatch. If you worry about that more than stopping the bycatch then the resource is secondary to you. Recovery has one less advocate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote todobien Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2017 at 12:51pm
Dead on saying we are hurrying with no common destination in site. Jerry is good at uniting his tribes of different interest. Maybe one day their braves will know how much the chiefs really care about them
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kshivar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2017 at 1:18pm
look at it as war. the Allies might not have prevailed in WWII had they acted individually and not as "allies". i am a life member of CCA but CCA like RFA, et. al. cannot go it alone. we need unification and a common strategy and not just a mishmash of vaguely similar goals and strategies.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cnaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2017 at 9:17am
There's also the utterly recalcitrant political gang in the general assembly who recognize no public resource as other than a bargaining tool for the purpose of their own aggrandizement. Other than that, the way is clear.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CapRandy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2017 at 9:16pm
Well the best VOICE has not come forward yet because nothing changes
Murder is killing but all killing is not murder
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Curmudgeon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2017 at 12:18am
Comms win because they are organized and have effective lobbying.

Or they have a more effective 'reward' system ...      Shocked
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paralichthys Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2017 at 7:38pm
Nothing is going to change. Ever.
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