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NCFA's Influence in the Senate- NEEDS ACTION

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    Posted: 10 May 2017 at 10:29am
Senator Bill Cook is behind this one, which would effectively give control of the MFC to the commercial sector (four of seven votes coming from the coastal counties) or creates a tied vote (no action) with one abstention.

The bill eliminates the two at-large seats and allows all recreational angler seats to have income from sportfishing activities.

57% control by the 23 coastal counties.  Does this resource not belong equally to the citizens of NC in all 100 counties?

43% in a block vote for the commercial sector that produces only 10% to 20% (at most) of the total economic impact that the recreational sector produces. 

SENATE BILL 257 PROPOSED COMMITTEE SUBSTITUTE S257-PCS55078-MLxfr-10

http://www.ncleg.net/sessions/2017/Budget/2017/S257-CSMLxfr-10-v5.pdf

Page 203














Edited by Rick - 10 May 2017 at 12:06pm
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NC Fisheries Management- Motto: Too Little, Too Late, Too Bad   Slogan: Shrimp On! Mission Statement: Enable Commercial Fishing At Any and All Cost, Regardless of Impact to the Resource.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chasintrout Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2017 at 3:59pm
Finally!! Giving you guys a taste of your own medicine. Doesn't taste too good does it?!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2017 at 5:40pm
Originally posted by chasintrout chasintrout wrote:

Finally!! Giving you guys a taste of your own medicine. Doesn't taste too good does it?!


What oyster rock have you been hiding under?LOL

Jerry's been trying this for years, sometimes successfully.   The NCFA tried to push this in last year's budget and it's back in this year's budget.

What's funny is that Jerry was on public radio recently bemoaning H867 as the wrong approach to fisheries reform, somewhat emphatically stating that pushing legislation was wrong.

I guess it's only wrong when he's not doing the pushing!




Edited by Rick - 10 May 2017 at 5:41pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CapRandy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2017 at 10:58pm
What medicine is that,being ballyhoo on isn't good medicine
Murder is killing but all killing is not murder
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jtoler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2017 at 9:08am
The medicine that fisheries management needs is good ole' castor oil. Get all the shyt out then manage the resource, not the "stakeholders". Stakeholders need to manage their efforts to comply with whatever is needed to return our fisheries to "viable, healthy, and thriving". The Division of Marine Fisheries needs to get out of user management and get into resource management. I mean, it is the title of that particular division.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TomM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2017 at 9:44am
i hope this was deleted before vote
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2017 at 9:57am
Originally posted by TomM TomM wrote:

i hope this was deleted before vote


Passed at 3:08am today on the third reading.

Just like last year- the strategy to defeat Jerry is to take out his language when SB257 goes to joint legislative conference to resolve the differences between the House and Senate versions of the Bill.

The House must stand its ground and remove the measures from the budget.

Everyone needs to get busy with their House members and leadership.




Edited by Rick - 12 May 2017 at 9:57am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2017 at 12:41pm
All, I realized after reviewing my initial post above that I missed posting this VERY IMPORTANT piece of the proposed legislation that would give control to the commercial sector by allowing them to block any pro-resource management efforts of the MFC.

If passed, it would require one commercial member breaking rank with the typical three commercial seat block vote in order to meet the "supermajority" requirement to basically conduct business.  Any pro-resource vote has been completely eliminated as a possibility. 

With three commercial seats, three recreational seats and a science seat there is virtually no possibility that five members would vote to give a supermajority in favor of conservation/resource rule making. 

There is little possibility that FMPs (Fishery Management Plan) will have any measures to address sustainable harvest or to end over-fishing.

H867, if it passes, is effectively neutered with the proposed commission structure and the change to 143B-289.52 shown below.  There will be ZERO rule making to support reform measures in H867.

This my friend is complete TRANSPARENCY of the NC Fisheries Association, Jerry Schill, Brent Fulcher, et al.  They have zero interest in conservation and sustainable fisheries, much less "coming to the table in good-faith" to resolve fisheries issues to benefit the citizens of NC.  It is all about personal profit and greed...but we already knew that didn't we.






Edited by Rick - 12 May 2017 at 5:23pm
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NC Fisheries Management- Motto: Too Little, Too Late, Too Bad   Slogan: Shrimp On! Mission Statement: Enable Commercial Fishing At Any and All Cost, Regardless of Impact to the Resource.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaitWaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2017 at 2:36pm
Recipe for disaster with this formulation given the polarization that takes place with many of the MFC's decisions.

If they wanted to reduce the MFC (for whatever reason) 2 recs, 2 commercial, 2 at-large, 1 scientist. Or 2 recs, 2 commercials, 3 scientists.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chriselk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2017 at 9:35pm
BW has it right.
Reduce the conflict of interest votes and increase the scientist votes (the latter of Bernie's proposals).

I have been advocating this for more than a decade.

Thanks Bernie.
The above comments are my personal opinion and do not represent those of any organizations or agencies I may be a member of.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CapRandy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2017 at 8:44pm
Never happen
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jimbob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2017 at 9:36pm
Nothing is ever going to happen to fishing in NC, except a total depletion of the resources. Once that happens, and all the commercials are out of business, a generation or two later, the fishery will recover.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote francoind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2017 at 11:39am
I think all commercial reps should be removed because they have a financial conflict of interest. PERIOD!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jimbob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2017 at 5:28pm
Originally posted by francoind francoind wrote:

I think all commercial reps should be removed because they have a financial conflict of interest. PERIOD!



And what on earth makes you think that would ever happen?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paralichthys Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2017 at 5:43pm
     Fishery reform in NC will never happen in our lifetimes. A few years back, we elected a Republican General Assembly because the Democrats were so corrupt, their Governor was convicted of a felony (only 1 out of many available). Did anything change? NOPE. Then we elected a Republican Governor so that the corruption could be taken out of the executive brance by the chief executive, thus ensuring resource based regulation of our fishery. Did anything change? NOT REALLY. The balance on the MFC changed, but because of the litigious nature of the comms, nothing will really be done. There's a little lip service being paid, but no real progress.

     Then, all the rec fishermen deserted the Republican Governor because the Democrat candidate made a weak statement supporting the resource just before the election. The fickle finger of fate has struck again...it's obvious from his actions that the new Governor can't wait to get back to the former business as usual that his predecessors utilized. Still no real action on fishery reform.

     Any time anybody gets a sniff at reforming the fisheries, comms will go to court...finding a pet judge to file with and getting exactly what they pay for...a fishery that's too expensive for a hook 'em and cook 'em type to utilize on a regular basis, and who really thinks playing with food is a good thing, anyway?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cnaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2017 at 8:15am
Excellent read on the utter waste case our governor must be; and we knew how bad the state government was already. Way to peg them in the hole they live, Paralichthys. The idea that a new balance on the MFC could reduce conflicts of interest and actually support resource conservation for all citizens and visitors is great. The idea just flies in the face of all that status quo the system Paralichthys describes is bound to support. The problem is that the resource centered system and the actual system cannot occupy the same place(North Carolina) simultaneously.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2017 at 12:20pm



Paralichythys...I agree with you on some aspects but disagree with you on others.

As the former Chairman of the Wayne County Republican party and a student at the side of the late Senator John East's conservative wheel chair I'm telling you that the Republican party of NC today is nothing like the party of years gone by.



The Republican Party gave America the Clean Water and Clean Air acts and through Presidents like George H. W. Bush they gave us responsible federal fishery management.

But this NC Republican party is rolling back environmental protections of our rivers and streams for the benefit of a few.  At first I asked, "don't you remember why those rules were put in place and how bad our waters used to be", but then I realize that so many of the Republicans we have in office in NC have no personal history with NC's environmental past such as Steinberg and Berger who came from Va and NY respectively so they don't know what they are sending us back to.  I do and it isn't going to be pretty.

As far as McCrory being turned on, it wasn't recreational fishermen, it was his own party, especially members of the Senate who drug him into HB2 and left him there on his own.  He knows that today and has quietly said it to close friends.

McCrory had those three appointments to the MFC lined up as early as March of 2016 for July appointments and chose not to appoint them for political reasons until absentee voting had been going on for a week and over a million votes cast and then in an attempt to gain recreational fishermen's, which are the largest voting block in fishery management issues, he made his appointments.   He never gave the resource a benefit of the doubt in his whole four years, only in the end did he make appointments as he did, 4 months late, to try to attain votes.  Heck, his people even called recreational fishing groups in late October asking "what can we do to get your votes?".  That was after the current governor issued his goals for the resource.

We don't know what Cooper will do for the resource until he makes his MFC appointments in July.  Who he nominates will be telling.  If he too delays the appointments that too will be telling.  Delays are symptomatic of political ploys.

But what the NC Senate did last Friday night is the most telling of recent events.

They upped the net based commercial fishing industries active voting influence on fishery rule making in NC from .33% to .42% of the total on the back of a budget.

In the past, the commercial industry needed two other votes on the commission beyond their assigned seats to give them benefit of the doubt to have control of the Commission, now they only need to find one more.   Recreational anglers who don't depend on the resource for income only get two votes even though they represent a group of citizens that is 583 times larger than the group of citizens represented by the net based commercial industry.   One of the seats is reserved for a "recreational industry" seat which means that person, like the three from the net based industry, is financially dependent for current income on harvest of the resource NOW.   Creel limits and moratoriums are "bad for business" for these four votes.  The new law allows every member of the Commission including the scientist to make income from resource harvest, but does not mandate that any person on it is prohibited from participating due to a financial conflict of interest.  What other Commission mandates like this?

Roy Cooper did not make that rule.....this is the gift of Republicans in Raleigh as they continue to peel back clean water and air in NC.

We all have things we agree with or don't understand.  Personally I don't see how voter id in any way keeps a truly eligible citizen from voting, but I do understand what gerrymandering is and like most here I can see it when you show me a map of current districts. 

I've not posted anything here that I've not told politicians to their face.  If they wish to ignore a problem or choose not to deal with it, that is their prerogative, but at the end of the day we have failed to hold a mirror up and make them look at what they've done.

Recreational leadership has chosen to pick and choose battles, and selectively choose goals rather than demanding that ALL the right things be done because for the long haul ALL these things are needed for the resource and for the good that resource can do for ALL citizens whether they own a net or not.

But no....we are afraid to upset a politician for fear of his or her next vote.....how ludicrous.  We should make it clear that OUR next vote is more important to their future than theirs to OUR future.  OUR meaning just that, not mine, not yours, but ours.  They understand that!

If you can see this then you work the Internet well enough to send an email to your representatives in Raleigh and politely tell them what you are willing to vote for them again on and what actions they support that will kill your vote and all the other votes you can influence.   If you are not doing that on a regular basis then you have only yourself to blame if your Representative keeps giving away our natural resources or is passing laws that keep our renewable resources at depressed levels.

If being a good Republican or a good Democrat is more important to you than being a good steward of t he assets of NC then it is time for you to be voted out of office and if you hold an appointed commission and politics is more important than your duty then please...resign your seat.  You are hurting NC's future if your vote is weighed more on politics than the issue itself.  There is nothing wrong with losing votes if you cast based on science and fact; there is much wrong with not acting out of fear of failure.

Jerry Schill has sued on a shoestring many times without fear of failure and has lost more times than he has won, but those few victories have allowed the net based industry to maintain and dictate fishery management in NC while we of the "backlash" community find solace issuing "white papers" and following the advice of elected officials who ask us to stay quiet while they "work this out" behind closed doors.

The NCFA requires that all their political friends publicly state what they are willing to do for them so in the end they have to follow through.   So why do rec voices buy into a pledge of silence that seemingly always results in surprise?

In light of what the Senate did, where is that politician that told rec voices that any proposed rule right now changing the MFC makeup was best not put forth?

We either run the train or ride someone elses!   White papers tend to yellow quickly without action.









Edited by Ray Brown - 16 May 2017 at 3:34pm
Some trawl operator will be forced to change in order to reduce bycatch. If you worry about that more than stopping the bycatch then the resource is secondary to you. Recovery has one less advocate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TomM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2017 at 12:46pm
Well said and absolutely true. The party does not stand for what it used to. It was hijacked.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jtoler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2017 at 3:22pm
The MFC should vote to suspend all fishing regulations from the moment of the vote through December 31, 2017. For the remainder of calendar year 2017, there would be no commercial fishermen or recreational fishermen, just fishermen. If you catch it and want to keep it, go ahead. If you catch it and want to sell it, go for it. If you catch it and want to donate it, by all means spread the love. No more licensing regulations, no more violations, no more creel or size limits, no more worrying about having the right judge to hear the charge. Free fishing for all.

All regulations that would be in effect on January 1, 2018 would be decided by those honest, capable representatives in Raleigh. After all, they would only do what is right and in the best interest of the state's citizens. They could use science if they preferred, or just continue to read the notes attached to the dollars that are being tucked into their pockets by those who are willing to pay.

Think of all the money we would save and no one would have to worry about those pesky rules when appropriating funds. The lady who loves to eat 8" flounder will be thrilled and no commissioners will have to worry about harm coming to them or their property. Perhaps the bullets will stop finding a way into the homes of resource minded folks and certainly the number of slashed tires will significantly decrease at the boat ramps. County commissioners won't have to cast a vote out of fear for the lives of their family members and pets. Peace would reign in fisheries management.

The meeting starts tomorrow. Let's just say it happened... how long do you think it would take Raleigh to step in to save the resource?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2017 at 6:43pm
Originally posted by jtoler jtoler wrote:

Perhaps the bullets will stop finding a way into the homes of resource minded folks and certainly the number of slashed tires will significantly decrease at the boat ramps. County commissioners won't have to cast a vote out of fear for the lives of their family members and pets. Peace would reign in fisheries management.


CCA sticker replaced on my truck.

If you need two good tires let me know-

http://eastnc.craigslist.org/wto/6132778468.html




Edited by Rick - 16 May 2017 at 6:50pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cnaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2017 at 8:54am
The party got hijacked? The party (both parties, actually) are filled with tinpot puds looking for a hog's ass in which to find a ham sandwich, maybe the whole ham. If we draw the conclusion that those people can be redirected or brought back on course, we live in a dreary dream. The parties have wholly assumed the part of society's destroyers, and can be shown to be so for many years. The destruction of the parties is the only thing that will stop them from making asses of you and me. We would have to produce a political human who experiences edification from the natural world in order to have the GA fix this system. That's not going to happen. There are no political ideas worth having in this country, as long as the citizens are treated as the enemy by the politicians, and that is quite positively how we are viewed in the corridors of concupiscent power.    As the lead gorilla in Planet Of The Apes commented: "the only thing that counts is power, naked merciless force!".   The change will have to be more drastic than your support for a party that doesn't exist if we are to have a fishery heritage in future. You will have to withdraw support from the predators in charge, and render them powerless, in order to install a party/regime which transcends the abject poverty of our existing scheme, and delivers the service to us citizens that all those who went before pledged, then delivered the manure we stand upon today.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2017 at 9:07am
I stand corrected. If the Senate version stays in place then any vote going forward regarding major harvest cuts or gear modifications would require 5 votes. A so called super majority. That means one of the three commercials would have to break ranks. Or to put it more simply, if this action stands, the three commercial members alone, can veto any action the MFC proposes without the need for any other single vote.

The commercial block would have absolute control thus absolute control of our marine resources. This is not an unintended consequence. This was surgical manipulation within the law.

They don't play nice some will say. No they don't. They play to win, not to place or show.


Edited by Ray Brown - 17 May 2017 at 9:09am
Some trawl operator will be forced to change in order to reduce bycatch. If you worry about that more than stopping the bycatch then the resource is secondary to you. Recovery has one less advocate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cnaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2017 at 9:46am
The hellish reality of life in North Carolina.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2017 at 10:47am
Every supporter of the resource needs to be asking their Republican senator why they voted to leave the above measures in SB-257.

The IMPORTANT action to take NOW is to ask both your Senate and House members to remove these items from the reconciled budget that will come out of the joint conference committee.




Edited by Rick - 17 May 2017 at 11:45am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cnaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2017 at 8:14am
Thank yew, Behverrley Boswale for yore axcellent wark hear on this layjislaytive ajanda! Yew go, girl! And mister cook, yew are soooo generus with yore favors to Dare county! Thank yew!      Best I could come up with.    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote penfish2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2017 at 9:42am
Get rid of MFC. Then add the DMF to the WRC. Period. Plenty of states have ONE wildlife/saltwater commission, not two.

Choose SW commissioners with elected-by-citizens directors (nine), one from each of WRC's nine Districts each four years. Do NOT allow elected SW officials to campaign by party, but only by what they say to their constituents in run-ups to elections. Expose $$ backing of candidates. You think only eastern NC people go to the coast to fish? SW finfish/shellfish are a state resource, not a resource reserved for comms east of I-95, just as all NC wildlife, no matter where located, is a public resource and managed statewide by WRC.

Guess what, too -- we save millions by eliminating duplicate services, especially enforcement, administration and equipment.

Maybe even enough to buy a helicopter or two sted of trying to join feds. Or a statewide board of SW managers probably would see the logic in getting millions from National Marine Fisheries Service if we enter into Joint Enforcement agreement.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Redfish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2017 at 11:29am
Originally posted by penfish2 penfish2 wrote:

Get rid of MFC. Then add the DMF to the WRC. Period. Plenty of states have ONE wildlife/saltwater commission, not two.

Choose SW commissioners with elected-by-citizens directors (nine), one from each of WRC's nine Districts each four years. Do NOT allow elected SW officials to campaign by party, but only by what they say to their constituents in run-ups to elections. Expose $$ backing of candidates. You think only eastern NC people go to the coast to fish? SW finfish/shellfish are a state resource, not a resource reserved for comms east of I-95, just as all NC wildlife, no matter where located, is a public resource and managed statewide by WRC.

Guess what, too -- we save millions by eliminating duplicate services, especially enforcement, administration and equipment.

Maybe even enough to buy a helicopter or two sted of trying to join feds. Or a statewide board of SW managers probably would see the logic in getting millions from National Marine Fisheries Service if we enter into Joint Enforcement agreement.

This^^^^^^.
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