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The So Flounder Supplement as passed

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    Posted: 14 January 2019 at 10:32am
I would gladly accept a complete moratorium on flounder if it applied to recs and commercials. In fact, I would strongly prefer that option to any of the other recommendations. The only hook and line flounder fisheries worth a hoot in SENC are the nearshore reef fish (usually not southern flounder) and the Cape Fear River. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kshivar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 January 2019 at 10:38am
There is a number of reasons the State will rarely fight a lawsuit very long or vigorously. We need our own meaningful lawsuit against DEQ and DMF. They will either settle or lose if done properly. Virtually no chance to lose unless the action is flawed and dismissed which should not happen.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 January 2019 at 7:16am
J.willis- Those headings are mine. The DMF just presented the slides.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote j.willis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 January 2019 at 4:13am
Deleted comment based on Rick's clarification of data posted above.




Edited by j.willis - 11 January 2019 at 8:58am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2019 at 11:51pm
Will DMF and the MFC address the issue now?

Will they fight a lawsuit from the NCFA?

Dead End Road...the can is an the end!

Where we are today, 2.5 years later- a complete MORATORIUM as an option, NO HARVEST FOR ANYONE.

MAY I HAVE A MOTION FOR A VOTE OF NO CONFIDENCE IN NC FISHERIES MANAGEMENT! 

Deja Vu weakfish...we almost wiped them out while Bradley Styron and the NCFA fought tooth and nail with multiple lawsuits to keep fishing on that depleted stock.  The weakfish stock has never recovered and has no recovery in sight. 

THE PROBLEM



THE SOLUTIONS










DO NOTHING and FLOUNDER DISAPPEAR IN ABOUT TWENTY YEARS




DO SOMETHING TO MEET STATUTORY REQUIREMENTS






Edited by Rick - 11 January 2019 at 9:44am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2019 at 11:47pm
...and this followed-

at the May-2017 Business Meeting the Commission agreed not to use the powers and duties vested to it under- 143B-289.52 allowing it to take temporary management measures.

Moved out of closed session without objection.

Reynolds explained at its last meeting the commission had consented to allow three members, Chairman Sammy Corbett, Vice-Chairman Joe Shute and Commission Mike Wicker, to participate in a Court Ordered mediation and authorized them to reach an agreement-in-principle that, if reached, would be presented to the full Commission for its approval. The mediated settlement conference was held on May 11, 2017 and an agreement-in-principal was reached. Reynolds advised that this agreement-in-principal was discussed during the closed session and that the terms of the mediation agreement will be finalized through a settlement agreement, which includes:
• A 15-inch size limit for southern flounder;
• A 6-inch minimum mesh size for anchored large-mesh gill nets; and
• A 5 ¾ -inch mesh size for escape panels in pound nets.

Additionally, in accordance to the terms of the agreement-in-principle, the commission will not seek to adopt a supplement to the Southern Flounder Fishery Management Plan until it acts to adopt an amendment to the Plan. The agreement-in-principle also required plaintiffs to withdraw their complaint with prejudice and waive and release of any and all claims related to the action that were or could have been brought against the defendants on or before the filing of the plaintiffs’ Amended Complaint (i.e. September 30, 2016).

Reynolds told the commission that these terms will be formalized through an agreement.

Motion by Rick Smith to accept the terms of the agreement reached in principle during mediation on May 11, 2017 pertaining to the matter of CCFA et al vs. NCDEQ et. al which will be finalized with a settlement agreement at a future date. Second by Joe Shute.

Motion carries 8-0 with one abstention. 

The Agreement





















Edited by Rick - 11 January 2019 at 9:32am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2019 at 9:55pm
Found this on a Google search. Timely move back to the top with what we know today.



Edited by Rick - 10 January 2019 at 11:50pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CapRandy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2016 at 8:40pm
Just close it and let the stock rebuild,of course that's not going to happen is it now,bottom has fell out of fishing for most rec in NC anyway
Murder is killing but all killing is not murder
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2016 at 10:43am
I think you are correct. Southern flounder may be the only inshore commercial finfish operation that allows a rod and reel harvest. Can't think of another species where it is allowed.

The Director, of course, can declare all harvest methods closed at any time he so chooses if he feels it necessary to rebuild stocks. The MFC would have, I believe, 48 hours to overrule him.

Remember, this is only for calendar year 2016.   The MFC can make adjustments going into 2017, a supplement is not a one and done deal, it remains flexible until a new FMP is finished according to the MFC attorney.
I am a native of NC. The "bycatch captial of the east coast of the US". Our legislature lets us kill more fish for no reason than any other Atlantic Coast state. I hope they are proud.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skateboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2016 at 10:20am
So if that is the extent of the supplement it would appear that a SCFL would keep one in the hook and line flounder game after 10/16?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote todobien Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2016 at 10:19am
Any luck of getting those daily reports or a tally?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2016 at 10:16am
The main part of the supplement is the first post in this thread and it took affect on January 1,of 2016.
I am a native of NC. The "bycatch captial of the east coast of the US". Our legislature lets us kill more fish for no reason than any other Atlantic Coast state. I hope they are proud.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skateboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2016 at 10:05am
Where can I find the exact wording for this supplement and when does it go into affect?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chuck Laughridge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 September 2016 at 4:52pm
Daily reporting for pound nets started Sept 1 and I will ask.

Good Fishing!!! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 September 2016 at 12:08pm
Chuck....gross landing information is public record. The DMF is to obtain daily reporting thus I'm sure they are running a total daily for YTD southern flounder harvest in total and by gear.

As a member of the MFC, could you request that the DMF send you a daily report of the pound net YTD total and then you place that number here daily so any citizen of NC who has interest will know the current count without having to have dozens of phones calls or emails to the DMF daily seeking the same information? While most here can multiply and divide the idea of stating what percent of the annual quota has been landed to date would be nice too.

Thank you in advance for making this happen.

(If they don't want to furnish you this information for this purpose then ask them to simply place it on their website daily for public consumption if they want to handle it totally by themselves. With their responsibility there is no doubt they are computing these running totals daily and the public does have a right to know where the quota stands. Obviously results through yesterday are perfectly ok. It doesn't have to be live.)

Edited by Ray Brown - 08 September 2016 at 12:15pm
I am a native of NC. The "bycatch captial of the east coast of the US". Our legislature lets us kill more fish for no reason than any other Atlantic Coast state. I hope they are proud.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CapRandy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2016 at 11:44pm
Management will never be there
Murder is killing but all killing is not murder
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bread Man 1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2016 at 5:24pm
"Lack of summertime gill nets"

If I am not mistaken, A and B are all that is closed right?
No lack of them in the other areas.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Basstard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2016 at 3:21pm
...along with at least 30 years of "horse trading"...

By then anyone who remembers this day in history will either be dead or so senile that all memory of "taking it in the shorts" will become a generational thing...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaitWaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2016 at 3:10pm
As always past performance does not necessarily predict future results.  Likely an iterative process with tweaking required. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2016 at 1:23pm
Originally posted by Stump1187 Stump1187 wrote:

BTW anybody know how that 9yo girl is doing this season? 


At least "she" was reporting her landings when "she" helped bust the red drum quota. 


Edited by Rick - 01 September 2016 at 1:39pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Glacierbaze Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2016 at 1:05pm
Edit to say, did not see Chuck's reply above, thanks.


Edited by Glacierbaze - 01 September 2016 at 2:03pm
"You can never elevate your own character by stepping on someone else's."

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stump1187 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2016 at 1:02pm
Originally posted by Rick Rick wrote:

Originally posted by Stump1187 Stump1187 wrote:

I'll go out on a limb and say that there will be no closure for them at all. Why? Tropical storms, small fish, fish too large, divine intervention, there will be a 'reason' that they cant meet their quota and they need to keep fishing. 



Look at this daily landings in pounds chart during the 1998 season.  In one day there were approximately 170,000 pounds landed in the pound net fishery.  That is almost 40% of the current quota landed in one day.

Eyeballing an Oct/Nov average, it appears to be in the 30K daily range. 




How can anyone look at this chart and not expect the pound net season to close some time during mid-October?  But then you have to factor in the group area closures mentioned above.




True I guess. People have never tried to play the system in our fisheries... no no no. BTW anybody know how that 9yo girl is doing this season? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chuck Laughridge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2016 at 12:57pm
Originally posted by Glacierbaze Glacierbaze wrote:

Chuck, what is the official word on landing an ocean caught 'summer flounder' after Oct. 16?  Do any of the proclamations, or other official documents closing the fishery just say flounder, or do they specify southern flounder?

It is my understanding that "flounder" brought to the dock from Pamlico Point or AR 330 (past the 3 mile limit) on Oct 16 of 2016 will earn a citation for reasons Ray referred to above.

Good Fishing!!!  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2016 at 11:57am
Originally posted by Stump1187 Stump1187 wrote:

I'll go out on a limb and say that there will be no closure for them at all. Why? Tropical storms, small fish, fish too large, divine intervention, there will be a 'reason' that they cant meet their quota and they need to keep fishing. 



Look at this daily landings in pounds chart during the 1998 season.  In one day there were approximately 170,000 pounds landed in the pound net fishery.  That is almost 40% of the current quota landed in one day.

Eyeballing an Oct/Nov average, it appears to be in the 30K daily range. 




How can anyone look at this chart and not expect the pound net season to close some time during mid-October?  But then you have to factor in the group area closures mentioned above.





Edited by Rick - 01 September 2016 at 12:13pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2016 at 11:52am
Want to bet on that?
I am a native of NC. The "bycatch captial of the east coast of the US". Our legislature lets us kill more fish for no reason than any other Atlantic Coast state. I hope they are proud.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stump1187 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2016 at 11:34am
I'll go out on a limb and say that there will be no closure for them at all. Why? Tropical storms, small fish, fish too large, divine intervention, there will be a 'reason' that they cant meet their quota and they need to keep fishing. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2016 at 11:31am
My guess is Nov 1st.

The 15" fish will give a 9% reduction.
A Nov 1st closure will give a 28% reduction.

That's close enough to 38%.

The increase CPUE in the pound net fishery due to landings reductions in the gill net fishery and recreational fishery will be lost to additional unreported landings in the pound net fishery.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stump1187 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2016 at 11:01am
Originally posted by Ray Brown Ray Brown wrote:

Guys....might as well make a "game" of it in terms of guessing the date rather than fussing about what a perfect situation would be.

With changes in gear, and lack of summer time gillnets, then there should be more and larger fish in the water in terms of availability for pound nets even if total numbers are down.

I'm saying Oct 23.

I wouldn't bet on that. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2016 at 10:43am
Guys....might as well make a "game" of it in terms of guessing the date rather than fussing about what a perfect situation would be.

With changes in gear, and lack of summer time gillnets, then there should be more and larger fish in the water in terms of availability for pound nets even if total numbers are down.

I'm saying Oct 23.
I am a native of NC. The "bycatch captial of the east coast of the US". Our legislature lets us kill more fish for no reason than any other Atlantic Coast state. I hope they are proud.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote todobien Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2016 at 10:35am
I'm with you Rick. The changes made will make it hard to estimate - different size escape mesh and different minimum size so different weights.
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